Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-06-2014 | 02:53 PM
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"Labor risk, we have a very, very strong partnership with all of our employee groups."
"Combining that with the productivity and probably the single biggest initiative we have on the cash front, on the CASM front is the 50-seat reduction or the upgauging in the airline."
"We don't expect to be at a run rate benefit of optimal 50-seaters in the system until the end of 2015. So this is going to be a sizeable benefit for us and help lend to the confidence that we have in our ability to hit these types of cost goals for the foreseeable future and contribute to additional margin expansion going forward."
"We would be creation of a global carrier. We’ve really diversified globally the footprint, both with the network, but also the sources of revenue."
"And then when you combine that with the immunized joint ventures which effectively become very similar to mergers in terms of how we can cooperate without any trust community on capacity, you get to a much more disciplined global framework similar to the some of the consolidation that you’ve seen in the U.S. which has really, really helped to derisk some of that revenue volatility that we’ve seen over time and better able to position the airline to respond to demand shots like we saw in 2009, 2001 etcetera."
"Combining that with the productivity and probably the single biggest initiative we have on the cash front, on the CASM front is the 50-seat reduction or the upgauging in the airline."
"We don't expect to be at a run rate benefit of optimal 50-seaters in the system until the end of 2015. So this is going to be a sizeable benefit for us and help lend to the confidence that we have in our ability to hit these types of cost goals for the foreseeable future and contribute to additional margin expansion going forward."
"We would be creation of a global carrier. We’ve really diversified globally the footprint, both with the network, but also the sources of revenue."
"And then when you combine that with the immunized joint ventures which effectively become very similar to mergers in terms of how we can cooperate without any trust community on capacity, you get to a much more disciplined global framework similar to the some of the consolidation that you’ve seen in the U.S. which has really, really helped to derisk some of that revenue volatility that we’ve seen over time and better able to position the airline to respond to demand shots like we saw in 2009, 2001 etcetera."
06-06-2014 | 02:59 PM
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I've flown with a number of managers, and very specifically told them I didn't believe in the 717 plan B carrot. Mgmt is too financially smart to throw all that money into re-engining the 50 seaters and pass up on the 717 deal. It just didn't make sense.
It was admitted that the 717s were coming with or without C2012, and "plan B" was just to draw out negotiations.
It was admitted that the 717s were coming with or without C2012, and "plan B" was just to draw out negotiations.
06-06-2014 | 03:07 PM
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From: Permanently scarred
Regarding contracts I just wish our company and our union thought of us as akin to Aaron Rodgers instead of Mark Sanchez.
One of them has brought the team success,
($22,000,000 Avg pay/yr)
The other...disappointment.
($2,250,000 Avg pay/yr)
OK, maybe we're not quite Mark Sanchez, but to hear some tell it that's about the best we can expect or deserve.
One of them has brought the team success,
($22,000,000 Avg pay/yr)
The other...disappointment.
($2,250,000 Avg pay/yr)
OK, maybe we're not quite Mark Sanchez, but to hear some tell it that's about the best we can expect or deserve.
06-06-2014 | 03:14 PM
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From: 767er Captain
T, I respect your viewpoint although I disagree with publicly stating over and over again we have no leverage. It plays right into managements hands.
Let me start by putting a different angle on the "a good poker player never shows his hand" meme. A good poker player gives every indication they have a winning hand and executes in a confident manner. How do we do that as a union? We state our goals and execute a strategy. More on that later.
It's clear the company is so flush with cash right now they are putting money not only on "need" projects but also "want" projects that were previously far down the list. If the company didn't declare dividends, weren't buying back stock and spending money on a dozen other pet projects the net profit for 2014 could be 5 Billion. The money is there. We have established that.
Now back to the goals and strategy. I know from your earlier comments you don't believe labor unrest (picketing, discussing with the media specifics about how management is making more now than pre 911 vs the pilot group, etc) would do any good. You do not believe even the threat of that would have any effect on leverage or increase the chances of achieving restoration. I disagree. A few things that come up in every investor conference. 1. Amazing labor relations 2. Getting rid of 50 seaters saved a ton of money 3. Virtual mergers with airlines all over the globe allow milk without buying the cow and hence we reduced our international flying from 2012 to the present. 4. One of the most productive airlines in the business.
A sophisticated thinker has to look at the information put out by the company to investors vs what the company puts out to employees or the government when they (Delta) want something. Look at their current campaign to remove government taxes from advertised prices and how they spin that as a benefit to consumers.
But I digress. The union needs to be willing to go out of their comfort zone. To do things differently. The union needs to quite propagating it's (the company's) talking points/disinformation and go directly to the pilots, educating them on how much money it will really take to restore compensation/work rules back to previous highs with interest factored in. A robust campaign to show where we are coming up short and get all pilots on deck with an informational campaign. Put a vote out on a pre contract that shows 97% of the pilots are behind the GOAL and ready to fight to achieve it. This is at the root of our leverage. Management types on this message board will disagree. They have an agenda to dissuade this type of thinking.
Maybe the NMB will work with us maybe they wont. If the company sees this kind of solidarity and weigh it alongside their stated goals (which would still be achievable) vs a prolonged negative public battle with the pilots, I do believe they would step up and be much more willing to make the pilots whole. You can say no it won't. We wont know if we can get more than cost of living and cost neutral contracts until we try something different. We must try something different. This has nothing to do with DPA. This has to do with DALPA stepping up putting the company on notice that cozy, yet lopsided constructive engagement that has proved primarily constructive to one side is going to change. It's time to stand up and be counted. We are investors in the company. Our dividends are due.
Let me start by putting a different angle on the "a good poker player never shows his hand" meme. A good poker player gives every indication they have a winning hand and executes in a confident manner. How do we do that as a union? We state our goals and execute a strategy. More on that later.
It's clear the company is so flush with cash right now they are putting money not only on "need" projects but also "want" projects that were previously far down the list. If the company didn't declare dividends, weren't buying back stock and spending money on a dozen other pet projects the net profit for 2014 could be 5 Billion. The money is there. We have established that.
Now back to the goals and strategy. I know from your earlier comments you don't believe labor unrest (picketing, discussing with the media specifics about how management is making more now than pre 911 vs the pilot group, etc) would do any good. You do not believe even the threat of that would have any effect on leverage or increase the chances of achieving restoration. I disagree. A few things that come up in every investor conference. 1. Amazing labor relations 2. Getting rid of 50 seaters saved a ton of money 3. Virtual mergers with airlines all over the globe allow milk without buying the cow and hence we reduced our international flying from 2012 to the present. 4. One of the most productive airlines in the business.
A sophisticated thinker has to look at the information put out by the company to investors vs what the company puts out to employees or the government when they (Delta) want something. Look at their current campaign to remove government taxes from advertised prices and how they spin that as a benefit to consumers.
But I digress. The union needs to be willing to go out of their comfort zone. To do things differently. The union needs to quite propagating it's (the company's) talking points/disinformation and go directly to the pilots, educating them on how much money it will really take to restore compensation/work rules back to previous highs with interest factored in. A robust campaign to show where we are coming up short and get all pilots on deck with an informational campaign. Put a vote out on a pre contract that shows 97% of the pilots are behind the GOAL and ready to fight to achieve it. This is at the root of our leverage. Management types on this message board will disagree. They have an agenda to dissuade this type of thinking.
Maybe the NMB will work with us maybe they wont. If the company sees this kind of solidarity and weigh it alongside their stated goals (which would still be achievable) vs a prolonged negative public battle with the pilots, I do believe they would step up and be much more willing to make the pilots whole. You can say no it won't. We wont know if we can get more than cost of living and cost neutral contracts until we try something different. We must try something different. This has nothing to do with DPA. This has to do with DALPA stepping up putting the company on notice that cozy, yet lopsided constructive engagement that has proved primarily constructive to one side is going to change. It's time to stand up and be counted. We are investors in the company. Our dividends are due.
06-06-2014 | 03:21 PM
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I am not saying that we don't have any leverage. Well, I am saying that at this particular point in time, it is limited, but you know that. You talk about a "long protracted battle with pilots". When could that start? Today? Tomorrow? Next week? I think that is when our perception of leverage differs. Personally, and this is not "managing expectation", I think it would be pretty futile to go out and start a FUPM campaign right now because our contract isn't even amendable for another year and a half, but maybe you can convince me otherwise. Like gzsg says... baby steps. But let's say that I misunderstand what it is that you are looking for at this point in time. A goal statement? Is that it? Or are you ready to go nuclear tomorrow? I think that you have to "manage" the pilots fervor wrt (for lack of a better word) anger over current conditions. You and gzsg are perpetually angry over what you perceive as our lot wrt the current state of the company. I get that. I understand it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it. So how do you rally the troops to follow your lead? There are a ton of guys out there that won't give a rat's tail about this until it comes time to negotiate the contract, and that isn't for awhile. Which then leads me to think you believe we can negotiate a brand spanking new contract, right now, based solely on the company's most recent quarterly statements. Again, I challenge you to make the business case for that.`Remember, our contract is much better than any one else's in the industry as a whole. So make the case other than community organizing. Hopey Changey sucks as a strategy.
Why no leadership?
Is that so much to ask?
Are our concessions still necessary?
Is it wrong to take a stand for our sacrifices?
Just a tiny step.
06-06-2014 | 03:28 PM
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From: 767er Captain
Regarding contracts I just wish our company and our union thought of us as akin to Aaron Rodgers instead of Mark Sanchez.
One of them has brought the team success,
($22,000,000 Avg pay/yr)
The other...disappointment.
($2,250,000 Avg pay/yr)
OK, maybe we're not quite Mark Sanchez, but to hear some tell it that's about the best we can expect or deserve.
One of them has brought the team success,
($22,000,000 Avg pay/yr)
The other...disappointment.
($2,250,000 Avg pay/yr)
OK, maybe we're not quite Mark Sanchez, but to hear some tell it that's about the best we can expect or deserve.
Aren't we getting overly dramatic now?
I do admit though, Sanchez was overrated from the get go, but what USC QB of late hasn't been?
06-06-2014 | 03:41 PM
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06-06-2014 | 03:44 PM
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I am not saying that we don't have any leverage. Well, I am saying that at this particular point in time, it is limited, but you know that. You talk about a "long protracted battle with pilots". When could that start? Today? Tomorrow? Next week? I think that is when our perception of leverage differs. Personally, and this is not "managing expectation", I think it would be pretty futile to go out and start a FUPM campaign right now because our contract isn't even amendable for another year and a half, but maybe you can convince me otherwise. Like gzsg says... baby steps. But let's say that I misunderstand what it is that you are looking for at this point in time. A goal statement? Is that it? Or are you ready to go nuclear tomorrow? I think that you have to "manage" the pilots fervor wrt (for lack of a better word) anger over current conditions. You and gzsg are perpetually angry over what you perceive as our lot wrt the current state of the company. I get that. I understand it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it. So how do you rally the troops to follow your lead? There are a ton of guys out there that won't give a rat's tail about this until it comes time to negotiate the contract, and that isn't for awhile. Which then leads me to think you believe we can negotiate a brand spanking new contract, right now, based solely on the company's most recent quarterly statements. Again, I challenge you to make the business case for that.`Remember, our contract is much better than any one else's in the industry as a whole. So make the case other than community organizing. Hopey Changey sucks as a strategy.
Somehow I knew you would use the hopey changey label.
To answer your question on timing:
Put together the numbers and start educating right now. Keep it positive. Pretend RA was running this campaign as someone earlier mentioned. He doesn't get all hot under the collar but he does state his goals, he does communicate those goals clearly and he does find ways to execute and achieve.
Right now is the time to reach out and get every member of our pilot union on board in advance of C2015. Get them excited that their hard work on the line every day has paid off. The company is finally in a position (consolidation, record profits, reduced debt, etc) to make true restoration possible. Surveys we can't see and secret ops behind closed doors do not qualify as the educational campaign I am talking about. As I said in my earlier comments, perform a symbolic vote that can achieve in the high 90 percentile that demonstrates our solidarity and resolve to achieve the goal.
Let management see the solidarity. Remind them that the pilots are critical to achieving managements goals including a well run, investment grade company. No shouting down or other nonsense. Just simply let them know that a very public campaign with 12000 pilots on board is in the wings. Show the company with current numbers, that restoration is possible while remaining profitable as a company.
If the company says not interested, begin step 1 of 100 of a public informational campaign. Managements of yesteryear might have not cared. I think this management will care. Being labeled the airline with the worst labor relations kills one of their favorite investor promotions and isn't the way they want this company to be perceived. The pilots don't either. Somethings gotta give though. Perception is everything and the company knows this as well as anyone.
06-06-2014 | 03:58 PM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
Not angry. Frustrated with the seeming lack of strategy and execution at the top of our union, yes.
Somehow I knew you would use the hopey changey label.
To answer your question on timing:
Put together the numbers and start educating right now. Keep it positive. Pretend RA was running this campaign as someone earlier mentioned. He doesn't get all hot under the collar but he does state his goals, he does communicate those goals clearly and he does find ways to execute and achieve.
Right now is the time to reach out and get every member of our pilot union on board in advance of C2015. Get them excited that their hard work on the line every day has paid off. The company is finally in a position (consolidation, record profits, reduced debt, etc) to make true restoration possible. Surveys we can't see and secret ops behind closed doors do not qualify as the educational campaign I am talking about. As I said in my earlier comments, perform a symbolic vote that can achieve in the high 90 percentile that demonstrates our solidarity and resolve to achieve the goal.
Let management see the solidarity. Remind them that the pilots are critical to achieving managements goals including a well run, investment grade company. No shouting down or other nonsense. Just simply let them know that a very public campaign with 12000 pilots on board is in the wings. Show the company with current numbers, that restoration is possible while remaining profitable as a company.
If the company says not interested, begin step 1 of 100 of a public informational campaign. Managements of yesteryear might have not cared. I think this management will care. Being labeled the airline with the worst labor relations kills one of their favorite investor promotions and isn't the way they want this company to be perceived. The pilots don't either. Somethings gotta give though. Perception is everything and the company knows this as well as anyone.
Somehow I knew you would use the hopey changey label.
To answer your question on timing:
Put together the numbers and start educating right now. Keep it positive. Pretend RA was running this campaign as someone earlier mentioned. He doesn't get all hot under the collar but he does state his goals, he does communicate those goals clearly and he does find ways to execute and achieve.
Right now is the time to reach out and get every member of our pilot union on board in advance of C2015. Get them excited that their hard work on the line every day has paid off. The company is finally in a position (consolidation, record profits, reduced debt, etc) to make true restoration possible. Surveys we can't see and secret ops behind closed doors do not qualify as the educational campaign I am talking about. As I said in my earlier comments, perform a symbolic vote that can achieve in the high 90 percentile that demonstrates our solidarity and resolve to achieve the goal.
Let management see the solidarity. Remind them that the pilots are critical to achieving managements goals including a well run, investment grade company. No shouting down or other nonsense. Just simply let them know that a very public campaign with 12000 pilots on board is in the wings. Show the company with current numbers, that restoration is possible while remaining profitable as a company.
If the company says not interested, begin step 1 of 100 of a public informational campaign. Managements of yesteryear might have not cared. I think this management will care. Being labeled the airline with the worst labor relations kills one of their favorite investor promotions and isn't the way they want this company to be perceived. The pilots don't either. Somethings gotta give though. Perception is everything and the company knows this as well as anyone.
06-06-2014 | 04:10 PM
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meh. I think it is a complete waste of time at this juncture. And as far as surveys go, I couldn't care less what YOU think is important.; therefore, seeing that survey is unimportant. If it meets MY expectations and desires, then I will vote yes. And you have no idea how high my expectations are for the next contract. Probably a lot higher than you remotely imagine, but I have no interest in wasting time with feel good messages at this point in time. You and gzsg obviously feel disenfranchised. That's too bad. Maybe it would help if you got involved somewhere where your angst and anger would be better heard and acted upon rather than an obscure who GAS forum..... just an idea. tifwiw
- You don't care about seeing survey results
- We are powerless
- The NMBA will put a cap in us if we try anything
- Not interested in spending any "negotiating capital" on NB scope recapture.
- Don't try anything new or expect anything better than what the company offers in the first round.
Regarding your expectations, I said not one word. I hope they are high. That said, a collective group of 12,000 pilots who can see each others expectations is much more powerful than hidden surveys or internal thoughts on what each individual pilots wants.
You have no idea of my involvement the same way I don't know your expectations. Assumptions and all that.
T, I will always respect your position on safety. Beyond that we will probably not agree on how to accomplish the goal of obtaining restoration and beyond.
Again, not angry. Thanks for ignoring that.
Good day Sir!
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