Splash, I see what you are saying...if something was near the bottom of a previous survey, management would know that it isn't desired as much as something else on the list. But should the negotiating team even be working very hard on something well down our list at the expense of things the membership ranked higher? Aren't we essentially telling management what we care about most by bringing those items to the table?

 

I think voting is different than surveying. We know the results of the ratification vote in 2012 because we wouldn't have had a contract without the results. How the items within our contract survey were ranked is a different matter entirely, especially since all the items had yet to be negotiated.

You were making a case for release of survey results. I was giving an example of why that might not always be a good idea, and citing a situation that actually happened.

 

The example I'm thinking of was what happened in 2012.

What if some of the items that were about to be negotiated the next year, just prior to FAR 117 being put in place, were ranked very low in the 2012 survey?

Is there any risk to us with having the company know we ranked them so low?

 

Happy Mother's Day to you too Slowplay.

 

And who would have operated all these 50 seaters we were lead to believe would be around in plan B? I'm sure our industry top analysts in Herndon forcast the staffing issues regionals are facing today. Or, didn't they? Fair question.'

--Not at you 80, just agreeing with your post.

 

The EtD has boosted our 9E application pool into double digits. Success!!

Only TWO applications are from guys coming out of flight school. The others are guys working at other 121 regionals.

 

The sheer audacity of you accusing others of perpetrating "revisionist history" is stunning, even by Dalpa's high standards.

You worded it carefully then, no doubt. But the implication was there. It was one of the many FUD tactics you yourself probably orchestrated, and are now attempting to walk back.

 

That point has validity up to a point, and we all now that. When it comes right down to it, we will go out there and do the job. We always have, and it won't change much.... for awhile. There will be rumblings here and there, but the vast majority of guys will still fill their lunchbox and go to work. But there might come a time when we are "fed up with it". Maybe ya'll are talking about that time, and I don't disagree about that... when we get there. But right now... today.. we are not even close. I'm still trying to talk about today. gszg is unhappy and wants a statement made telling Mr Anderson that we expect our sacrifices to be recognized and rewarded. I don't disagree with the idea per se, I just think at this juncture it is a waste of time. He and Ed want to whip the pilots into a frenzy and sustain that frenzy until negotiations begin in earnest. Again... imho.. a waste of time because between now and then we have the rest of summer and then football season. And THAT doesn't get us to exchange of openers. The vast majority.. or more importantly 62% will not remain all that interested until we actually get down to cutting bait or wetting worms. And a few malcontents will not affect the stock price. jmho.

 

I didn't say anything about going in as 11,000 individuals. I was speaking specifically about seeing any survey results. A survey IS important to get the pulse of the group as a whole. But then, as Mr Spock said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.." Once a TA is reached, the survey is unimportant, because we (theoretically) trust the negotiators to get us the best deal they can based on all the information they have available.. and here's the hard part... all the while trying to satisfy the "needs of the many" to the biggest extent possible. When I then have to evaluate the TA, why do I need to see a survey in order to judge whether or not it satisfies what I wanted to get on the contract? I don't. Because I do not care what YOU or NewK or Timbo want on the contract, because your needs and desires are different from mine. I will evaluate the contract based on what is before me and how it satisfies my wants/needs. Why do you care what I wanted anyway? I know many disagree, but there really is no upside in releasing survey results at that point. It only becomes a rallying point for future doughnuts with an agenda to overthrow our representatives and we are back at square one, and what is really sad about that is that is is but a snapshot of the entire process. It is discouraging to me because some think so little of those that are putting in the time and working on our behalf, and that will most importantly live under the contract that they negotiated that they then want to back a truck over them. Depressing really.... I have known Heiko since DEX days, and he is a good man. Logical in his thoughts and dedicated to the group. He's a gator, but I'll overlook that and give him my fullest support anyway, but I wouldn't want to do what he has to do, and put up with the constant sniping that he has to endure when he has nothing but the best interests of everybody here at heart.

sorry for the rant

 

Delta is the hot play right now because we are several years ahead of everybody else in the industry. AAL will be a formidable competitor when their merger is complete because they have a very strong network. UAL, would be awesome if their management wasn't living in the 70s. They are a mess now, and probably will stay in stick shaker for quite some time. But their network is far superior to ours in Asia. (They have way too many big airplanes though) The one thing that is really helping our cause there is Smisek... one of THE worst CEOs in the country. The one I really don't get is SWA. Their growth potential is done, (they are losing 88 717s and have minimal 737s on order) the merger integration is a train wreck but their stock hits new highs almost daily. Nothing about that company is exceptional right now yet people still buy it. I'd short the hell out of it if I weren't afraid of losing my arse, because it's GOT to crash sometime....

Your last point is well taken, and I don't disagree. I truly believe we will get substantial gains in C15. But we cannot ignore what the other airlines are doing. It just doesn't work that way. UAL/AAL/SWA have got to raise the bar in some areas. We cannot go alone each and every contract patterning against ourselves. Don't you get tired of having everybody else benefit by what WE do? I still want to be the premier group, but it's time for somebody else to at least do SOMETHING.