Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-30-2014, 11:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Jerry, all these concessions you claim I support have really only accomplished a few things. They have almost doubled my pay since the bankruptcy and improved my quality of life. I want ever dime I can get in my last years. I think given the circumstances DALPA has delivered like no other airline union. In fact their performance since leaving chapter 11 probably surpasses unions in any business. You made it clear many times you want to burn the house down and dance on Delta's grave. The good news is the majority of pilots don't agree with you.
Does it really bother you so badly to see the projections put out for contract 2012 turning out to be if anything understated? Relax a little and enjoy life.
Take a look at this forums other threads and ask yourself why Delta appears to be the first choice for everyone wanting a airline job. The results speak loud and clear.
Does it really bother you so badly to see the projections put out for contract 2012 turning out to be if anything understated? Relax a little and enjoy life.
Take a look at this forums other threads and ask yourself why Delta appears to be the first choice for everyone wanting a airline job. The results speak loud and clear.
Don't want to burn down the house. Just restore our profession.
Management has tough work to do and I respect them.
They do not have to make split second decisions in hundred million dollar machines that hold peoples lives in the balance.
What is the cost of an accident? AF 447? $500 million? $1 billion?
That my friend is a lot of responsibility. A responsibility that no other job entails.
Let's all work together in a honest and honorable fashion to make the gains we so richly deserve.
Jerry
06-30-2014, 11:40 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Holding off on the remaining 30 76-seaters is probably not because they have second thoughts about regional jets, if that was the case why order 40?
In fact, someone was telling me just yesterday that supposedly our guys went to pick up a 717 and it was still in AirTran paint. Supposedly it had to be delivered because of a 76-seater showed up too early. I wasn't there, I don't know.
In fact, someone was telling me just yesterday that supposedly our guys went to pick up a 717 and it was still in AirTran paint. Supposedly it had to be delivered because of a 76-seater showed up too early. I wasn't there, I don't know.
06-30-2014, 11:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
Originally Posted by gzsg
I'm sure you are much smarter than I am.
I got the same numbers from my fellow 1985 hires at United and American. As you know, they both already have pay banding. 4 bands.
They both stated the productivity gain for management is around 15%.
Imagine 9 fleets/8 bases and over 800 retirements in 12 months.
From my years of doing ALPA work, I estimate each retirement to result in 8 to 10 initial training cycles. But let's use 6.
800 X 6 = 4800. 4800 initial training cycles in 12 months. Never mind the cost, who will fly the planes?
And in the years when over 800 pilot retire at age 65, how many will really retire? 1100? 1200?
Right now retirements are running at 2 for every 1 scheduled to retire at age 65.
Pay banding is a massive concession that will further stagnate our careers. And if you are already at the top? Who cares? It won't harm you.
Pull up the ladder.
I got the same numbers from my fellow 1985 hires at United and American. As you know, they both already have pay banding. 4 bands.
They both stated the productivity gain for management is around 15%.
Imagine 9 fleets/8 bases and over 800 retirements in 12 months.
From my years of doing ALPA work, I estimate each retirement to result in 8 to 10 initial training cycles. But let's use 6.
800 X 6 = 4800. 4800 initial training cycles in 12 months. Never mind the cost, who will fly the planes?
And in the years when over 800 pilot retire at age 65, how many will really retire? 1100? 1200?
Right now retirements are running at 2 for every 1 scheduled to retire at age 65.
Pay banding is a massive concession that will further stagnate our careers. And if you are already at the top? Who cares? It won't harm you.
Pull up the ladder.
06-30-2014, 11:54 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by finis72
If I'm not mistaken most of the retirements will come off the top paying equipment so there will still be lots of training going on which neither you nor I can quantify. What does not a proponent of pay banding mean to you ? I will be a dot long before pay banding is even an issue. I'm soon to fall off the ladder you accuse me of pulling up.
The day I retire, I will care just as much for the pilot on the bottom of the seniority list as I do myself.
I hope you will do the same.
Ask your reps. Going forward pay banding is a 15% productivity gain for management. That is 1800 pilots.
Haven't we given enough?
Jerry
06-30-2014, 11:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by gzsg
Just my opinion
…. We cannot fail again.
The best example was "plan B".
Not buying the 717s. The ink was dry as usual. The planes were purchased. There was no other option.
We gave up a 2 hour ALV increase, changing the summer calendar and 99 hours for reserves for nothing.
Our concessionary contract is no longer necessary.
We do not want to kill the golden goose. We simply want a fair agreement that recognizes our sacrifices and our contributions.
…. We cannot fail again.
The best example was "plan B".
Not buying the 717s. The ink was dry as usual. The planes were purchased. There was no other option.
We gave up a 2 hour ALV increase, changing the summer calendar and 99 hours for reserves for nothing.
Our concessionary contract is no longer necessary.
We do not want to kill the golden goose. We simply want a fair agreement that recognizes our sacrifices and our contributions.
I was just pointing out that the identity of Ts and sailing are pretty much known to everyone who have been on here for a while. They aren't really hiding behind their screen names.
06-30-2014, 11:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
Originally Posted by gzsg
In this extremely profitable environment I am opposed to granting further concessions, especially those that cost jobs.
The day I retire, I will care just as much for the pilot on the bottom of the seniority list as I do myself.
I hope you will do the same.
Ask your reps. Going forward pay banding is a 15% productivity gain for management. That is 1800 pilots.
Haven't we given enough?
Jerry
The day I retire, I will care just as much for the pilot on the bottom of the seniority list as I do myself.
I hope you will do the same.
Ask your reps. Going forward pay banding is a 15% productivity gain for management. That is 1800 pilots.
Haven't we given enough?
Jerry
06-30-2014, 12:04 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by finis72
Good post Jerry, maybe you are trainable. :-)
Thank you!
06-30-2014, 12:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
I'm not trying to change the topic, but I do have a proposal for C2015:
While our reserve system is much better than it has been, it still isn't as good as I think it can/should be. I would love it if reserves could:
1.) Pick up trips from open time before they are assigned a day out. I think United pilots can pick up trips 3 days out.
2.) Yellow slip for trips that are not in their silos and get them over pilots who have no yellow slip preference in.
While #1 might be a longshot, #2 shouldn't be.
I know the company thinks they want to match with reserves according to what silo they are, but in my category, I've seen a lot of pilots get assigned trip back to back to back, while others just sit there. There were three trips I YS'ed last week that went to reserves in the 4 day silo while I sat in the 5 day silo. All three of them were later called in fatigued (and after looking at the pilots schedules, I don't blame them.). What I'm seeing is that FAR117 is making fatigue calls more likely.
Maybe allowing pilots to YS trips outside of their SILO might help everyone.
Any thoughts?
While our reserve system is much better than it has been, it still isn't as good as I think it can/should be. I would love it if reserves could:
1.) Pick up trips from open time before they are assigned a day out. I think United pilots can pick up trips 3 days out.
2.) Yellow slip for trips that are not in their silos and get them over pilots who have no yellow slip preference in.
While #1 might be a longshot, #2 shouldn't be.
I know the company thinks they want to match with reserves according to what silo they are, but in my category, I've seen a lot of pilots get assigned trip back to back to back, while others just sit there. There were three trips I YS'ed last week that went to reserves in the 4 day silo while I sat in the 5 day silo. All three of them were later called in fatigued (and after looking at the pilots schedules, I don't blame them.). What I'm seeing is that FAR117 is making fatigue calls more likely.
Maybe allowing pilots to YS trips outside of their SILO might help everyone.
Any thoughts?
06-30-2014, 12:15 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Not sure on 1, but I definitely agree with number 2, newK!
06-30-2014, 12:20 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by gzsg
In this extremely profitable environment I am opposed to granting further concessions, especially those that cost jobs.
The day I retire, I will care just as much for the pilot on the bottom of the seniority list as I do myself.
I hope you will do the same.
Ask your reps. Going forward pay banding is a 15% productivity gain for management. That is 1800 pilots.
Haven't we given enough?
Jerry
The day I retire, I will care just as much for the pilot on the bottom of the seniority list as I do myself.
I hope you will do the same.
Ask your reps. Going forward pay banding is a 15% productivity gain for management. That is 1800 pilots.
Haven't we given enough?
Jerry
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