As is always the case with you sailingfun, you posted numbers. Anyone can do that. No links, no context. You're wrong SO often that I certainly can't take numbers you post at face value.

Management has very clearly stated that our C2012 was not only cost neutral, but it allowed them to FUND initiatives that benefit OTHER employees at Delta. We see the results of that now with the announcement that all other employees are back to their pre-bankruptcy wages...except pilots.

Carl

Whoa there cowboy. I'm not in agreement with you there. Some things are NOT negotiable, at least if I'm going to like the face I shave every morning.

I'm simply saying if you are going to propose it, man up and call it what it is: selling jobs.

Nu

Absolute 100% baloney. You can't back up a single word of this with real data.

You DALPA folks seem to post from the exact same talking points. Talking points aren't facts.

Carl

I don't recall Purp ever saying that even once. In fact, I don't remember anyone saying that except one person. You. You kept putting those words in the mouths of those you wish to silence. Look forward to you proving me wrong on that since you say Purple Drank "spewed" that a lot.

Carl

You're batting 1000 here sailingfud. I don't recall Purp OR ANYONE HERE saying they want to be at war with management...except one person. You. You keep putting those words in the mouths of those you wish to silence.

The hitting streak continues. We are NOT at the top of the industry. SWAPA has an actual scope section as opposed to the nearly non-scope we have. SWAPA, FDX, UPS and our JV foreign partners have better pay scales. The list goes on. We might lead the industry in a few small areas, but we lag in most.

Carl

This is why posting data for you is a waste of time. You just throw up a straw man, change the subject and talk of "appearances."

Wow. Yet another straw man and changing of subjects.

You're somthin else fud.

Carl

But I'm afraid it will fly this time. We're seeing the EXACT same template as 2012. Donatelli is acting exactly like O'Malley. We'll be surveyed again, and the results never released. The negotiators will bring in small pay raises funded with concessions in other areas. Some reps will be furious, others happy to help Mother Delta. MEC will go on a huge fear/sales campaign and it will pass by 60%

Sure everyone's paying attention, but this "union" is a partner with management. That's their prime directive.

Carl

Carl;

The 268 million number was what was briefed at the road shows. So was the 1 billion in increased costs over the three year duration.

Bombardier announced order for 24 CR9's today from unidentified.

I am not sure there is any other way to say this. I don't know any of the data about this other than a personal guess. I went through training early this year and I just was estimating how many bodies were moving through the school house. Other than that, I know what you know.

I have done quite a bit of contract costing and I was just trying to show the analytical method about how you would come up with job savings from some pay banding proposal. Figure out the current training load and then try to estimate how much that load would be reduced and then do the math.

Other than that I will let you guys fight it out. Apparently in a "bottom up" organization every pilot is supposed to have a say unless you don't toe the "bottom up" line. Some pigs are just more equal than others.