Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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- - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1675334)

You can't back up a single word of this with real data. Talking points aren't facts.

Fair enough. So where is your data? All you've used to back up your assertions are management's talking points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1675342)

our JV foreign partners have better pay scales.

Which ones would those be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1675342)

We might lead the industry in a few small areas, but we lag in most.

May one assume that you have hard data to support this? Do share...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1675324)

First you say you don't have access to costing data produced by either entity, then you proclaim as if it was a fact that we're the "most expensive pilot group in the industry." Your personal opinion is fine, but you seemed to state that as fact.

You're right. I was getting ahead of myself. I should have stated that as being my understanding. Our pay rates were certainly higher than everyone, other than SWA, FDX, and UPS. One can also look at the MIT Airline Data Project that's been discussed here previously to see that we cost more per block hour in total than any other carrier, including SWA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1675324)

Like I said to sailingfun, you can try to define what management actually says all you want. You're entitled to reading into it what you wish. I think they were quite clear. All other employee groups at Delta are back to their pre-bankruptcy wages...but not pilots.

That's true. Again I say so what? We were back to pre-BK wages prior to C2012. That was still 32.5% lower than our high point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilbur Wright (Post 1675375)

I'm not advocating pay banding, but I really have a problem with your 1500 pilot speculation. The first of several problems I see with your theory is assuming every one of those 800 retirements in a year will be 777/747 captains. Numerically impossible since there are only 544 777/747 captains. As an example, in the five years since the merger over 1000 pilots have retired and I've only moved up 300 numbers. A lot of NB captains and FOs will be a part of that 800+ number in those peak years 2021-2024 so the training cascade is far less for each retirement than you propose .

I agree with alfa (btw, welcome back!) that we need hard data, not wild a** speculation about this issue.

Take the time to talk to your reps. UAL and American are saying 15% productivity gain for management.

I had a great deal of experience at NWA ALPA paying millions to pilots from grievances. Rebidding the air line on paper using the waterfall to get every harmed pilot the money owed had management followed the contract.

I agree not every retirement will be a 777 or 747 captain, but pay banding is a massive concession any way you look at it. We don't need to make concessions and we certainly don't need more stagnation and longer freezes.

Like CDOs, once the line pilots are aware pay banding is on the table, hopefully we can file it with CDOs in the waste basket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1675457)

We were back to pre-BK wages prior to C2012.

Misleading Dalpa talking point. Does not account for inflation or reduced buying power.

Care to use constant dollars and recompute?

Didn't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigGuns (Post 1674830)

What is the best place and price to get a suitecase? I need a new one... Best brand?

Crew Outfitters now carries a brand called Briggs and Riley. Has a lifetime warranty against ANYTHING. I've had mine for 7 years now and still looks practically new. I've had to have it worked on a few times, and the charge was $0. Even once had to send it off to the factory in the Northeast for a handle replacement. Sent it out next day air on a Monday, had my suitcase back on Wed...cost was $0. They even pay the shipping cost. Will never buy another piece of luggage again. If it can't be fixed, they will replace it with a brand new one...even 20 years from now. Or so they say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomgoodman (Post 1675382)

At 65, DPMP automatically became my secondary coverage and the premium decreased about 50%.

I thought that when you reached 65, all company coverage ceased and you transitioned to Medicare 100%. Why would you still have DPMP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1675432)

There is so much about this discussion not to like:

1) Pay banding.

2) The allegation that some guys would be reaching a deal on pay banding wayyyyy ahead of the MEC, and especially ahead of the survey, therefore ahead of the pilot group, thereby corrupting the process.

3) Riding that unproven allegation, trying to give a partial, or maybe false, impression, of what might be happening, to manipulate opinion on a specific topic.

There are no discussions with management on pay banding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1675443)

Sounds like something management would say.

Actually the longer we hold off on pay banding the more valuable it becomes.

IMO we should never agree to it. But if we are going to make this massive concession, we should do it in C2018 and once again like C2015, achieve historic gains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1675334)

Absolute 100% baloney. You can't back up a single word of this with real data.

You DALPA folks seem to post from the exact same talking points. Talking points aren't facts.

Carl

I posted the data for you Carl with the actual yearly increases in pilot costs. What data do you want?