Originally Posted by Ferd149

I mostly agree except for the bold part.

I've said probably a dozen times on here that profit sharing is a scam to make you feel "like part of the organization". Give me dollars that can't be manipulated by the accountants, either in direct compensation or work rules. For the life of me, I don't know how we ever got on this profit sharing bandwagon?

Ferd

Originally Posted by Ferd149

J,

NOPE........I'm not arguing we need to make any concessions.

But, profit sharing has to go! As I said, re-wicker it into other areas i.e. work rules for example that aren't taxable.

Look, we paid down debt (a good thing) but that is money that isn't available for profit sharing. We paid a dividend (an OK thing if you have your stock) but it's money not available for profit sharing. We are buying back stock.........see where I'm going?

As I said, we allowed management to get us into a compensation package they can manipulate and we have to get out from under it. Now is the time!

Ferd

PS Good to see you on here, haven't seen ya since Duke's in HNL

Originally Posted by Ferd149

I will say this about profit sharing. I'm the only guy on here who thinks it's a bad thing..............so what does that tell ya

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I'm with Uncle Ferd here.

Carl

Originally Posted by Ferd149

I mostly agree except for the bold part.

I've said probably a dozen times on here that profit sharing is a scam to make you feel "like part of the organization". Give me dollars that can't be manipulated by the accountants, either in direct compensation or work rules. For the life of me, I don't know how we ever got on this profit sharing bandwagon?

Ferd

Originally Posted by shiznit

Debt paydown and dividends are not deducted from the profit sharing calculations. It's not actually "profit sharing", it's a bonus payment based upon PTIX excluding one-time items.


I'd trade the rest of the 0-2.5B 10% and even 2.5-3.125B 20% portion (keeping the 20% above that) for 6.5% added to our pay rates in a New York minute.

I'm with you Ferd, pay rates compound into every other section of the contract and in future rates, PS is a fixed number forever.

I do like the "unlimited upside 20%" as a high side protection, but I prefer more of my compensation protected.

"4833" was/is definitely a misnomer... More accurate is 10.76/3/3 with a 4% bonus on half of 2012 earnings. (Standing by for incoming)

Originally Posted by buzzpat

You can also go onto the Net and select your aircraft type and then Hotels on the bottom right. It takes you right to the hotel's website. Also good for checking out eating and workout potential.

Originally Posted by Gearjerk

Jerry,

First of all, thank you for the reply PM. I agree that we must stand strong AGAINST concessions for C2015. In this time of record profits and industry health, I don't believe we should have to "trade" anything for contract improvements either.

Secondly, ya gotta stop using the previous six months of this year's retirements as a "data point" to "cost future retirements." It just doesn't hold water.

I mentioned in a previous post, you then replied, it IS NOT a linear curve, especially based on only the previous six months. Mandatory retirements are listed below:
2014: 62
2015: 170
2016: 229
2017: 287
2018: 416
2019: 511
2020: 613

With what you've stated, we should have 4576 retirements between 2014 & 2020? I wish, but that's not a realistic number.

As someone else posted, it normally averages the mandatory retirements, PLUS 1% of the seniority list. (~120) With 62 mandatory retirements this year, plus ~120 pilots, I expect to see ~182 pilot retirements for 2014. Approximately 71 remaining retirements for 2014. (Average six/month for remainder of the year, might be slightly low.) Next year, 170 mandatory retirements, plus 120 pilots lends to the possibility of 290 (2015) pilot retirements.

It's all a guess until it's in the past, but having our reps take a doubled number of retirements to the negotiating committee calling it "costed data" is doing nobody any good.

Thanks for your concern, at your seniority level. (I mean that.)

Kyle

Originally Posted by shiznit

I agree with Carl too....

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Question, what are the pros and cons of say a 6.75 ADG (say with 0% raise the first year)? Just an increase in the ADG.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Here's my proposal: Agree to a 3 year contract with pay raises of 0/0/0.

On date of signing-2015, ADG goes from 5:15 to 6:00. At end of 2016, ADG goes to 6:45. At end of 2017, ADG goes to 7:30. At end of 2018, ADG goes to 8:00.

Simple easy argument to make with the public and the NMB. Pilots will be guaranteed at least 8 hours of pay for the days they work.

I would mention scope, but that can't get better with ALPA. But fate (read RJ experiment and JV experiment collapsing) could always intervene.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Question, what are the pros and cons of say a 6.75 ADG (say with 0% raise the first year)? Just an increase in the ADG.