Originally Posted by dalad (Post 1686494)

I hear it's a combination of summertime nonrevers and locally based crew members using the Landside bus, because they discovered it was quicker, as two of those buses are on a continuous shorter loop.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1686498)

Whoops. I just realized you guys might be talking about NYC parking. I'm talking about the Camp Creek lot in ATL. Sorry for any confusion.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1686497)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. How does more people using the landside bus cause the secure section to fill up more?

Originally Posted by dalad (Post 1686500)

Newk and I commute to NYC using the Landside lot. That's the one that's always full now.

Originally Posted by Fly4hire (Post 1685277)

That's really easy. Actually reflect the will of the pilots in negotiations as articulated by the contract survey and the direction of the status Reps. If you can't meet those goals (inside the negotiating box) go back to the MEC for further direction, in the parliamentary sense of the word. Do that and you'll have your unity and support.

I don't want to see 6 long term MEC insiders who the think they know better than the 12000 pilots, and 19 status Reps ignore the direction of those they work for and shortcut the process to achieve thier idea of what we need.

Democracy is not an option only if it gets you the result you desire :eek:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1686513)

2 times 37 is 62? Good math, alfa!

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1686508)

Here is the crux of the problem, YOU don't believe in democracy. If there is a vote that you disagree with, it is a flawed democracy, it can't be just that you were in the minority.

The MEC adopted the policy manual unanimously and that policy manual guided everyone's actions in the C2012 negotiations. At least fifty times you and others have been asked to quote the section of the policy manual that wasn't followed. You won't and you can't, because it was followed to the letter. The policy manual is not the way you want so therefore it is flawed because YOU don't believe in democracy.

The MEC had seven days to mull over the TA. You claim they were arm twisted and cajoled, but not you, you didn't fall for it. Wow, how special that makes you. In fact, there were many events planned for people to sit around and discuss the agreement opienly and have a frank discussion. Instead of attending these, you and many others locked themselves away in your own little club. Maybe you expected them to read your mind about how you felt. When the vote comes out 2 to 1 against you, well it is a flawed vote and those who voted yes were either too stupid or too weak to stand up for themselves. In reality it is YOU that doesn't believe in democracy.

The pilots were given the full contract language and had at least a month to go through it. They could ask questions debate the issues, attend road shows, and make their decision. Again they voted 2 to 1 against you. Again it was because they were too stupid or too weak to stand up for themselves. YOU don't believe in democracy.

What you really want is to have some type of super delegate status where we don't really have a vote, we only get to count the votes that you agree with. You have never accepted our policy manual, the MEC rarely meets where you or one of your friends has not tried to change the policy manual and you still lose those votes. Once again the MEC is too stupid or too weak to do the right thing because YOU don't believe in democracy. Seriously, how many times do we have to have the same debate about electing committee chairman? I know that is the way you are used to, but do you have any data to show that your way produces better results? But hey, if you don't believe in democracy then the democratic vote doesn't mean anything. We should just keep voting until we get it right.

If you are going to claim the policy manual wasn't followed then at least you should quote the section that wasn't followed. I await with bated breath.

So I turn you statement right back on you. You didn't get the result you desire and therefore the democracy is flawed. By a two to one margin the Delta pilot group disagrees with you, but of course they are too stupid or too weak to make their own decisions.

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1686501)

The landside lot is full all the time now. You drive around for 15-20 minutes -- really waiting for the bus to come -- play musical chairs until people get off, rush to park in their spot, only to be left by the bus that just dropped them off and you have to wait 15-20 minutes for another bus to come.


It's fun. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1686521)

Oh boy, you caught another conspiracy there. Is that really the best you can come up with?

Maybe you can take a crack at it. You were able to figure out how awful that deal was all by yourself. Now why didn't the entire pilot group agree with you? See if you can find some way to answer that question without basically saying the pilot group is unqualified to represent themselves and it should be left up to the better people like you.