Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1686731)

The DALPA plan: Tuck your tail between your legs and agree to 4%. "Oh, and Mr. Anderson sir, have we mentioned today what a great job we think you're doing running the airline?"

What's YOUR plan?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1686737)

What's YOUR plan?

A plan cannot be developed until the objective is set. I would start with setting the objective of restoring our contract so that our compensation and work rules provide a standard of living comparable to what Delta pilots experienced in the 1980's though early 2000's time frame. I would communicate this objective clearly so that all concerned (line pilots, management, Wall Street, etc.) are aware of it. Accompanying this would be a lot of material showing exactly how much of a hit we've taken over the past decade, how much it would take to restore our compensation going forward, and how little pilot costs actually are in the grand scheme of things. Might not hurt to show how other employees (especially management) have mostly or even completely recovered (and in some cases even exceeded) their buying power from 10 years ago. What is DALPA's objective? Do you even know? Do any of us even know??

BTW, I don't disagree with you about not focusing solely on pay rates. Whatever it takes to increase the W2. Pay rates, work rules, or some combination of the two. Bottom line is that our compensation needs about a 50% boost for our buying power to be fully restored. That might be a little steep, given how much of a hole DALPA has dug us into over the past decade by acting like bankruptcy level compensation is the new normal and we're just happy for ANY improvement to that. So I might could agree to Jerry's 20% (to W2, not necessarily just pay rates) on day one... as long as the subsequent years of the contract provided some pretty significant improvements as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1686718)

I love the raise! What is your plan when management says not a chance let's meet again in 6 months?

Why the defeatist attitude?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy (Post 1686748)

Why the defeatist attitude?

Because he's "got his" and doesn't want to rock the boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1684203)

I get it now and I agree. To me pay banding is longer freezes, that's where I lost you. I'm hearing RA wants 5 years and he states goals and achieves them. Scary.

Glad we agree longer freezes is a major concession.

Sorry for the slow uptake, I flew 5 legs yesterday. :eek:
Jerry

Just a what if. If... there were 5 year category freezes, what if they had a pilot friendly "out". For example, what if you could put in your bid as a condition that if you got the bid based on a number/percentage, if you ever fell below that number/percentage, your freeze was lifted? I am not saying that I am in favor of 5 year freezes, but if they had a way out for things caused by management, they might be more acceptable. If management wants something that is viewed as onerous, if that can be eviscerated, it might not be so bad.

Another consequence of a 5 year freeze might be that more junior guys get into better seats sooner. With all the movement we should be seeing, the more senior guys might wait a little longer than they would since they could see a trend towards a better seat. For example, they might be able to hold 88A now.. but wil see that in a bid or 2 they would be able to hold 737, so they might wait a little longer. Again, not an advocate of it, just trying to think about how it might play out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1684116)

Ferd

One more thing to ponder.

Many of our pilots are stuck in the past, never realizing the industry has changed forever. Billions in fees. No fare wars.

We drop SFO-NRT. UAL drops SEA-NRT.

It is the oligopoly of management's dreams.

Our economy is lackluster and picking up steam every day.

None of us can imagine the profits Delta will make. We will soon announce an additional $250 million in free cash flow in the second quarter.

Our profits will easily hit $5 billion in 2015.

Ferd we get 20% of the profit over $2.5 billion. Do you really want to give that up? This money is a small token of our billions in life changing concessions. Let's leave it alone and make the historic gains our MEC has committed to without concessions.

Jerry

You finally posted something that I can get onboard with.

Personally, I think that profit sharing should pay quarterly. TVM and all that :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1686746)

A plan cannot be developed until the objective is set.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gomerglideslope (Post 1686565)

Carl states "Distortion and straw man arguments are too easily deciphered around here Alfa"... I shall standby anxiously for said deciphering.

Here you go...and this was just the first few sentences:

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1686508)

Here is the crux of the problem, YOU don't believe in democracy.

Classic distortion and straw man. Fly4hire was an elected rep. Elected democratically. While I didn't agree with all of his positions as a rep, he never flouted the will of the pilots he represented. In other words, his actions as a rep showed he did indeed believe in democracy. Alfaromeo knows this, yet he smears in order to deflect from his own actions that got him thrown out. There's a name for that kind of behavior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1686508)

If there is a vote that you disagree with, it is a flawed democracy, it can't be just that you were in the minority.

Again, Fly4hire never said or intimated anything of the sort. The democratic process was purposely and successfully flouting by the actions of alfaromeo, slowplay and the rest. The democracy wasn't flawed, it was just sidestepped by people with their own interests in mind. To our union's credit, those people are no longer in those positions.

I won't clog up the thread by quoting the rest of alfaromeo's post, but you get the point. Well maybe you don't Gomer.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1686627)

Of course you'll poison the well and then leave,

None of us gets to decide for certain when we'll be "leaving" tsquare. And voicing my opinion isn't poisoning anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1686627)

because YOU won't have to be here to suffer the results of your desire to burn down the house.

I'd rather stay to enjoy the results of a strong and united pilot group that stood up for what is right and what they deserve. A pilot group who isn't afraid to use the full complement of legal tools to lead the industry in every measurable metric. A pilot group who isn't afraid to fight for the compensation commensurate with pilots as great as Richard and Dickson says we are.

If you call that burning the house down, you have bigger problems than I can solve.

Carl