Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-04-2014, 09:52 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Karnak
I hope so!
I liked them when I flew them on two different fleets. I would bid them if they were available. Putting them in the survey would be a good idea for gauging pilot preference.
Just curious; have you ever seen your personal opinions validated by the pilot group in a vote? I can't remember a membership ratification vote where your plea for "vote no" was held by anywhere near a majority of your fellow pilots.
I think you were even among the 12% that voted no to the unilateral pay increases in 2003/04. Is that correct?
I liked them when I flew them on two different fleets. I would bid them if they were available. Putting them in the survey would be a good idea for gauging pilot preference.
Just curious; have you ever seen your personal opinions validated by the pilot group in a vote? I can't remember a membership ratification vote where your plea for "vote no" was held by anywhere near a majority of your fellow pilots.
I think you were even among the 12% that voted no to the unilateral pay increases in 2003/04. Is that correct?
Let's poll the pilots separately on CDOs and publish the results.
We both know that will never happen. This question in the survey is all the insiders need to get the company what they desire. They know the pilots will vote yes after the threats and outlandish projections.
I flew CDOs many times as a young man and always was less than 100%.
Underestimating the pilots this time around will be a game changing mistake.
09-04-2014, 09:52 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Check Essential
That "senior to me" number can be highly misleading.
NYC717A might be their 3rd or 4th choice after what are essentially throw away bids. (747A, 777A, etc.)
NYC717A might be their 3rd or 4th choice after what are essentially throw away bids. (747A, 777A, etc.)
09-04-2014, 10:11 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by scambo1
Do we have any virgin JV language?
Which means our Virgin JV language is currently more effective than our AF/KLM language.
Our scope clause only exists so it can be amended.
Last edited by Check Essential; 09-04-2014 at 10:22 AM.
09-04-2014, 10:12 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by Karnak
I hope so!
I liked them when I flew them on two different fleets. I would bid them if they were available. Putting them in the survey would be a good idea for gauging pilot preference.
Just curious; have you ever seen your personal opinions validated by the pilot group in a vote? I can't remember a membership ratification vote where your plea for "vote no" was held by anywhere near a majority of your fellow pilots.
I think you were even among the 12% that voted no to the unilateral pay increases in 2003/04. Is that correct?
I liked them when I flew them on two different fleets. I would bid them if they were available. Putting them in the survey would be a good idea for gauging pilot preference.
Just curious; have you ever seen your personal opinions validated by the pilot group in a vote? I can't remember a membership ratification vote where your plea for "vote no" was held by anywhere near a majority of your fellow pilots.
I think you were even among the 12% that voted no to the unilateral pay increases in 2003/04. Is that correct?
I have a few questions for you regarding your experience with CDO's:
1 - How much sleep, if any, did you generally get during the day?
2 - How much sleep, if any, did you generally get during the night at the hotel?
3 - On average, how much sleep did you generally have during the 24 hours preceding your flight back to base in the morning?
4 - What does sleep science say about how much sleep a normal human being needs to function at 100%?
5 - Was the FAR 117 10 hour minimum rest break with an 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity based on sleep science?
Do you have a feel for how other pilots who have done CDO's would answer those first three questions?
09-04-2014, 10:38 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
DALPA is apparently all too willing to go along with this. Fill out those surveys, folks. Just say NO to CDO's!
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Let your reps know there will be consequences (think recall) if they allow this to be in a deal.
09-04-2014, 10:41 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
Originally Posted by RockyBoy
The SLC council sent out an email warning us of the "concessionary" risks to some of the issues on the survey. Pay banding, sick time, PBS values, Out of base swaps, etc. So now we are being managed on how to fill out the survey.
09-04-2014, 10:50 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
I don't see that at all. I see that DALPA wants to know how we feel about them. By all means, fill out those surveys, folks. Say NO to CDO's if you don't want them. Say YES to CDO's if you do want them.
What if the survey shows that a majority of pilots want CDO's?
What if the survey shows that a majority of pilots want CDO's?
But it sounds like things may not be as simple as you suggest, Alan. I'll certainly reserve judgment until I've actually seen the survey, but here's some food for thought from the L&G thread from someone who says he has done the survey:
Originally Posted by Sink r8
The problem isn't that they're asking us, but it's a combination of putting a concessionary item on the table AND the manner in which they're asking us to consider them. We're not given go opportunities to specify whether or not we want to go down a specific path. We're being asked:
Do you want to go down this path if other airlines are doing it?
Do you want to go down this path if we can make improvement A?
Do you want to go down the path if we can make improvement B?
Do you not want to go down this path?
You might get 65% of people to answering "no" to a straight-up Yes/No on CDO's, but you might bet 35% yes votes to line up with 8% that "A" is a good mitigating strategy, 8% that think "B" is a good mitigating strategy, and bingo, you have 51% saying they want CDO's with some improvement.
This is exactly the way Prater's guys pulled off the claim of support for Age 65.
This is a very poor survey, IMO. I'm a supporter of our union, but this doesn't meet standards of intellectual honesty. It smells of a few guys wanting OOBS and trying to push them through, a few others wanting CDO's, and whatever other pet items people fought over.
I expected much better.
Do you want to go down this path if other airlines are doing it?
Do you want to go down this path if we can make improvement A?
Do you want to go down the path if we can make improvement B?
Do you not want to go down this path?
You might get 65% of people to answering "no" to a straight-up Yes/No on CDO's, but you might bet 35% yes votes to line up with 8% that "A" is a good mitigating strategy, 8% that think "B" is a good mitigating strategy, and bingo, you have 51% saying they want CDO's with some improvement.
This is exactly the way Prater's guys pulled off the claim of support for Age 65.
This is a very poor survey, IMO. I'm a supporter of our union, but this doesn't meet standards of intellectual honesty. It smells of a few guys wanting OOBS and trying to push them through, a few others wanting CDO's, and whatever other pet items people fought over.
I expected much better.
09-04-2014, 11:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
I don't see that at all. I see that DALPA wants to know how we feel about them. By all means, fill out those surveys, folks. Say NO to CDO's if you don't want them. Say YES to CDO's if you do want them.
What if the survey shows that a majority of pilots want CDO's?
What if the survey shows that a majority of pilots want CDO's?
What if the pilots want to fly 300 hours a month and drink beer while they are at it?
I'm serious. Just because some greedy pilots want CDOs does not make them any less unsafe.
I can't believe we are discussing this and I can't believe its 2014 and the pilots can't see the hazardous weather on a tablet and our passengers can.
I want to believe in ALPA but it is a fail. They cannot accomplish the simplest tasks.
CDOs are on the survey for another age 65 cram down. No one will vote no on C2015 just because of CDOs and those dogs know it.
Jerry
09-04-2014, 11:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by gzsg
I want to believe in ALPA but it is a fail. They cannot accomplish the simplest tasks.
If you only used your talents to participate, and improve, as opposed to promoting fratricide, maybe you'd actually provide a service to your fellow pilots. The topic is only "ALPA" for some of you afficionnados.
For the rest of us, the topic is the survey.
I don't like it.
09-04-2014, 11:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
I'm not quite middle of the pack.
I just checked how many senior to me are bidding NYC 717 A
Answer: 1. Total
Bold prediction: I think NYC 717 A will go to new hires.
I just checked how many senior to me are bidding NYC 717 A
Answer: 1. Total
Bold prediction: I think NYC 717 A will go to new hires.
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