Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-04-2014 | 10:12 AM
At home on the maddog!
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
I hope so!
I liked them when I flew them on two different fleets. I would bid them if they were available. Putting them in the survey would be a good idea for gauging pilot preference.
Just curious; have you ever seen your personal opinions validated by the pilot group in a vote? I can't remember a membership ratification vote where your plea for "vote no" was held by anywhere near a majority of your fellow pilots.
I think you were even among the 12% that voted no to the unilateral pay increases in 2003/04. Is that correct?
I liked them when I flew them on two different fleets. I would bid them if they were available. Putting them in the survey would be a good idea for gauging pilot preference.
Just curious; have you ever seen your personal opinions validated by the pilot group in a vote? I can't remember a membership ratification vote where your plea for "vote no" was held by anywhere near a majority of your fellow pilots.
I think you were even among the 12% that voted no to the unilateral pay increases in 2003/04. Is that correct?
I have a few questions for you regarding your experience with CDO's:
1 - How much sleep, if any, did you generally get during the day?
2 - How much sleep, if any, did you generally get during the night at the hotel?
3 - On average, how much sleep did you generally have during the 24 hours preceding your flight back to base in the morning?
4 - What does sleep science say about how much sleep a normal human being needs to function at 100%?
5 - Was the FAR 117 10 hour minimum rest break with an 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity based on sleep science?
Do you have a feel for how other pilots who have done CDO's would answer those first three questions?
09-04-2014 | 10:38 AM
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What if the survey shows that a majority of pilots want CDO's?
09-04-2014 | 10:41 AM
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09-04-2014 | 10:50 AM
At home on the maddog!
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
But it sounds like things may not be as simple as you suggest, Alan. I'll certainly reserve judgment until I've actually seen the survey, but here's some food for thought from the L&G thread from someone who says he has done the survey:
The problem isn't that they're asking us, but it's a combination of putting a concessionary item on the table AND the manner in which they're asking us to consider them. We're not given go opportunities to specify whether or not we want to go down a specific path. We're being asked:
Do you want to go down this path if other airlines are doing it?
Do you want to go down this path if we can make improvement A?
Do you want to go down the path if we can make improvement B?
Do you not want to go down this path?
You might get 65% of people to answering "no" to a straight-up Yes/No on CDO's, but you might bet 35% yes votes to line up with 8% that "A" is a good mitigating strategy, 8% that think "B" is a good mitigating strategy, and bingo, you have 51% saying they want CDO's with some improvement.
This is exactly the way Prater's guys pulled off the claim of support for Age 65.
This is a very poor survey, IMO. I'm a supporter of our union, but this doesn't meet standards of intellectual honesty. It smells of a few guys wanting OOBS and trying to push them through, a few others wanting CDO's, and whatever other pet items people fought over.
I expected much better.
Do you want to go down this path if other airlines are doing it?
Do you want to go down this path if we can make improvement A?
Do you want to go down the path if we can make improvement B?
Do you not want to go down this path?
You might get 65% of people to answering "no" to a straight-up Yes/No on CDO's, but you might bet 35% yes votes to line up with 8% that "A" is a good mitigating strategy, 8% that think "B" is a good mitigating strategy, and bingo, you have 51% saying they want CDO's with some improvement.
This is exactly the way Prater's guys pulled off the claim of support for Age 65.
This is a very poor survey, IMO. I'm a supporter of our union, but this doesn't meet standards of intellectual honesty. It smells of a few guys wanting OOBS and trying to push them through, a few others wanting CDO's, and whatever other pet items people fought over.
I expected much better.
09-04-2014 | 11:21 AM
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What if the pilots want to fly 300 hours a month and drink beer while they are at it?
I'm serious. Just because some greedy pilots want CDOs does not make them any less unsafe.
I can't believe we are discussing this and I can't believe its 2014 and the pilots can't see the hazardous weather on a tablet and our passengers can.
I want to believe in ALPA but it is a fail. They cannot accomplish the simplest tasks.
CDOs are on the survey for another age 65 cram down. No one will vote no on C2015 just because of CDOs and those dogs know it.
Jerry
09-04-2014 | 11:34 AM
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If you only used your talents to participate, and improve, as opposed to promoting fratricide, maybe you'd actually provide a service to your fellow pilots. The topic is only "ALPA" for some of you afficionnados.
For the rest of us, the topic is the survey.
I don't like it.
09-04-2014 | 11:42 AM
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I'm not quite middle of the pack.
I just checked how many senior to me are bidding NYC 717 A
Answer: 1. Total
Bold prediction: I think NYC 717 A will go to new hires.
I just checked how many senior to me are bidding NYC 717 A
Answer: 1. Total
Bold prediction: I think NYC 717 A will go to new hires.
09-04-2014 | 11:46 AM
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From: window seat
Not buying it.
09-04-2014 | 11:49 AM
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I've heard that if 777 f/o's are willing to bid 717 capt, they'll make more money and get more chicks.
They'd be crazy not to do it.
That's just what I heard.
They'd be crazy not to do it.
That's just what I heard.
09-04-2014 | 11:52 AM
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Karnak,
I have a few questions for you regarding your experience with CDO's:
1 - How much sleep, if any, did you generally get during the day?
2 - How much sleep, if any, did you generally get during the night at the hotel?
3 - On average, how much sleep did you generally have during the 24 hours preceding your flight back to base in the morning?
4 - What does sleep science say about how much sleep a normal human being needs to function at 100%?
5 - Was the FAR 117 10 hour minimum rest break with an 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity based on sleep science?
Do you have a feel for how other pilots who have done CDO's would answer those first three questions?
I have a few questions for you regarding your experience with CDO's:
1 - How much sleep, if any, did you generally get during the day?
2 - How much sleep, if any, did you generally get during the night at the hotel?
3 - On average, how much sleep did you generally have during the 24 hours preceding your flight back to base in the morning?
4 - What does sleep science say about how much sleep a normal human being needs to function at 100%?
5 - Was the FAR 117 10 hour minimum rest break with an 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity based on sleep science?
Do you have a feel for how other pilots who have done CDO's would answer those first three questions?
2. Usually layover minus an hour. Some of the hotels were very close, and conducive to the CDO. The sign in sheet and room key were in the van. In fact, only two of the hotels I can remember DIDN'T make it easy to get quickly to the room, and they weren't bad. Personally, I don't have sleep issues - which is why I liked "illegals".
3. It varied. When I could hold them, I planned for them. I found it easier to plan for sleep, and to recover from the flying, than it was when I flew 11-12 day Asia trips. Those things messed me up for a few days afterward. With CDO's, I was getting my flying done is fewer days, and that made my planning worth it.
4. I think it says something about being rested. In my experience with CDO's, I felt safe, and MORE rested than I did on Day 9 of a 12-day, regardless of how much planning I did. I trust the science on WOCL. The CDO's I've flown allowed me to sleep during my WOCL's.
5. Yes.
I'm not sure. Doesn't matter. If we get CDO's, I'll bid them. If we don't, I won't bid them.
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