Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Probably because we have an older pilot group that thinks that they won't be around to deal with the consequences of scope (probably true). They want their pay and retirement before they exit.

GogglesPisano

09-09-2014 04:49 AM

Rhetorical questions:

1) Why would a union not have the goal of achieving the best contract possible for its members, given that it's income is derived from dues?

2) What evidence is there that ALPA is not complying with the above, given the negotiating climate (our peer set?)

tsquare

09-09-2014 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotFrog (Post 1723117)

Even with over 700 responses, Scope is STILL behind pay, retirement and work rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1723118)

IMO, those are demographic issues.

I think what it more correctly shows is that surveys are not a representative sampling of the group in a true statistical sense. The more I have thought about this the more I believe that a scientific poll would garner a better representation of the group's real wants/needs/desires. Think about it. The people that fill out surveys are probably more passionate about some issue, whatever that is, and they want to make sure they are "heard". The vast majority of those that don't fill out the survey are probably pretty happy letting the representative government take care of it. I am not saying that a survey doesn't have value, just that it is not scientific, and therefore not a true statistical representation of the group.

Or maybe the truth is that scope just ain't that important. Still want the surveys released?

tsquare

09-09-2014 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonShot (Post 1723120)

Probably because we have an older pilot group that thinks that they won't be around to deal with the consequences of scope (probably true). They want their pay and retirement before they exit.

So everybody is leaving in the next year or two and won't have to deal with scope issues? The average age is something like 55. That is 10 full years, and unless we get stupid in contract negotiations, 2 and possibly 3 more contracts under which they live. Doesn't sound rational to me.... Maybe it just isn't as important to most people as some think it is...

RonRicco

09-09-2014 05:10 AM

I think the magical number to make a survey statically relevant is around 40 percent participation. If you have polling to supplement, you can actually take that number a little lower.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

scambo1

09-09-2014 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1723131)

I think you make a reasonable point. I didn't take (or even look at) the DPA survey. IMO, it has nothing but feel good value. It certainly isn't going to hamstring negotiations.

I'm almost done with the ALPA survey and while my comments about it wouldn't mirror many of the detractors, it certainly was lacking- in at least my ability to comment on each section.

Btw, if scope isn't important, we will look like Midwest express soon enough.

scambo1

09-09-2014 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano (Post 1723129)

In answer to number 1 which you'd think was rhetorical...IMO, ALPA is made aware of corporate plans ahead of the market or pilot group. They partner with these plans in an effort to help them become reality (717) using a cost/ benefit analysis. They attempt to help implement these plans while keeping the real info shrouded.

2. When you read not in our competitive set, they are a different industry, they asked us not to publish their contract, etc. that would be evidence of some kind wouldn't it.

gzsg	09-09-2014 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hornetsnest (Post 1723110)

You mean like 5:15 daily guarantee and reserves paying the same as regular? Looks like maybe half that list has been accomplished by DALPA already. Restore international pay? What does that even mean? Get "certain" wide body flying back? Not all of it?

Jerry has been pushing the value of the DPA surveys. Jerry has been the only one running around here and on Chitchat with his hair on fire saying that pay banding is a done deal and the DPA survey has said the pilots want pay banding. He's written a number of the DPA emails. Does he support the DPA's survey stating that pilots want pay banding because it helps training?

You can't have it both ways. If Delta does read everything then they know that the DPA pilots in 2003 whoever they were at the time actually wanted pay banding and it even says in the survey results that it to help out training. Isn't that what everyone is pi$$ed off about right now? Massive training issues? Everyone keeps saying how the DPA is causing DALPA to do things. DPA is responsible for the results. Well here's one that Jerry says is a done deal and low and eff'in behold the DPA says the Delta pilots wanted it in the next contract.

Do DPA/Independant public surveys mean anything or not? You can't have it both ways. :confused:

And DALPA doesn't ask the pay banding question in their survey? If it isn't coming our way, why is it in DALPA's survey?

I do give them credit for not asking about freezes in their survey.

I think asking about CDOs was a mistake or straight up manipulation. Hoping the former.

Jerry

GogglesPisano

09-09-2014 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1723149)

So, what's in it for DALPA? What would be their motivation for not achieving the most they could for the pilot group?

gzsg	09-09-2014 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotFrog (Post 1723117)

Even with over 700 responses, Scope is STILL behind pay, retirement and work rules.

However the responses to improving international scope and having immediate penalties for noncompliance are off the charts.

The Delta pilots are very clear on this point. As well as door pay.

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