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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

forgot to bid 11-03-2009 06:08 AM

This is an analysis on the Cseries from yesterday, I think its harsh and possibly biased, but there are some valid points sprinkled in.

Bombardier Barbs Shows CSeries Can't Cut The Mustard - GLG News

Mesabah 11-03-2009 06:24 AM


Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 705575)
This is an analysis on the Cseries from yesterday, I think its harsh and possibly biased, but there are some valid points sprinkled in.

Bombardier Barbs Shows CSeries Can't Cut The Mustard - GLG News

Sounds like a post at airliners.net. Also the article fails to mention the scope issues that are present in the ordering of such aircraft. I can't help but think that if scope were given up, thousands of Cseries would be ordered instantly.

Everyone keeps saying the engine is a failure and that's why the plane is a failure, no data has come out to support these claims.

yamahas3 11-03-2009 06:26 AM


Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 705566)
I'm still trying to figure out what could be offered that could have a lot of guys willing to give up 100 seat scope.

If creatively worded and presented by the company, many pilots will give up scope without receiving anything in return.

"If we have to put these planes on mainline, we may be forced to park more widebodies to cover the cost." They'll fall for it every time, and sadly, many of the ones flying the widebodies are too disconnected and selfish to even care. They've sold out more scope to ensure their job will still be safe.. for now.

A pilot may be smart, but pilots are often very dumb.

upndsky 11-03-2009 06:29 AM


Originally Posted by FlyingSig (Post 705214)
Secret decoder ring:

Go to icrew---> open time ---> reserve availability list

Find your employee number. Whatever number in line you are is where you stand in the que for that kind of trip.

In otherwords, you're #5 in the 5+ day group, but a 3 day trip pops into the pot. That trip is given to the first person in the 3 day bucket.

You get put in line based on your raw score (combination flying/sicktime/vacation time etc). If everybody has the same score (like the 1st of the month) then it is seniority order.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Some of the guys who are in the queue ahead of you may not be legal for a trip that pops up.

Example: You're on for 3 days and there's another 3-day person ahead of you (because of seniority, RAW score, whatever). It's possible that person flew the day before. If a trip pops up and it falls within his domicile rest, the trip goes to you. Also, a person may be showing available that day, but he may be finishing a trip that morning. For all practical purposes, he can't be used that day even though he shows available.

This happened to me once. I got done with a 4-day trip which got back around 9 in the morning. I had one more day left and when I looked at the reserve availability list for the next day, I was at the bottom of the list with around 8 1-day guys ahead of me. The weather was good, no IROPs anywhere so I thought there was no way I was going to get used.

I commuted home and my butt wasn't parked on the couch for more than a minute when scheduling called with a trip early the next morning. When I asked the scheduler about all the guys ahead of me, I found none was legal for it. They were either already flying and were not getting in until late at night, which wouldn't give them enough rest, or they were looking at a 30/7 conflict. So I had to turn right around and commute back to Atlanta that evening.

Unfortunately, the reserve availability list doesn't show any of that. I don't put any stock in my position on the list. There are too many variables that will make a person ahead of you not legal for a trip. This is one big gripe I have about the system. It needs to be much clearer or transparent so you know where you really stand so you can plan better. I don't mind working, but I also don't want to have to hang around if I really don't have to.

newKnow 11-03-2009 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by yamahas3 (Post 705583)
If creatively worded and presented by the company, many pilots will give up scope without receiving anything in return.

"If we have to put these planes on mainline, we may be forced to park more widebodies to cover the cost." They'll fall for it every time, and sadly, many of the ones flying the widebodies are too disconnected and selfish to even care. They've sold out more scope to ensure their job will still be safe.. for now.

A pilot may be smart, but pilots are often very dumb.

That's why we had better vote for very smart, very vocal union leaders who will SCREAM bloddy murder if it's even proposed.

Check Essential 11-03-2009 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 705566)
I'm still trying to figure out what could be offered that could have a lot of guys willing to give up 100 seat scope.

Lee Moak has a history of selling scope concessions to the pilot group.
He won't necessarily have to "offer" anything. Moak's tactic is to use fear.
He'll come up with some scenario that includes terrible consequences if we don't allow the company to outsource more flying.
60% will be scared enough to vote yes. Same as it ever was.

Free Bird 11-03-2009 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 705603)
60% will be scared enough to vote yes. Same as it ever was.

Actually I think that the NWA folks will help us move that metric over a bit in our favor.

You're right though, Moak has our MEC by the, uh, well you know.

hockeypilot44 11-03-2009 07:38 AM

I never vote for anything or anyone. If there is a vote to relieve scope, I will make sure to go through the effort to put in a no vote. I like to think other pilots are the same way. The company put themselves in this mess through the outsourcing to begin with. Screw them. It's time Delta pilots fly Delta aircraft.

tsquare 11-03-2009 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by upndsky (Post 705584)
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Some of the guys who are in the queue ahead of you may not be legal for a trip that pops up.

Example: You're on for 3 days and there's another 3-day person ahead of you (because of seniority, RAW score, whatever). It's possible that person flew the day before. If a trip pops up and it falls within his domicile rest, the trip goes to you. Also, a person may be showing available that day, but he may be finishing a trip that morning. For all practical purposes, he can't be used that day even though he shows available.

This happened to me once. I got done with a 4-day trip which got back around 9 in the morning. I had one more day left and when I looked at the reserve availability list for the next day, I was at the bottom of the list with around 8 1-day guys ahead of me. The weather was good, no IROPs anywhere so I thought there was no way I was going to get used.

I commuted home and my butt wasn't parked on the couch for more than a minute when scheduling called with a trip early the next morning. When I asked the scheduler about all the guys ahead of me, I found none was legal for it. They were either already flying and were not getting in until late at night, which wouldn't give them enough rest, or they were looking at a 30/7 conflict. So I had to turn right around and commute back to Atlanta that evening.

Unfortunately, the reserve availability list doesn't show any of that. I don't put any stock in my position on the list. There are too many variables that will make a person ahead of you not legal for a trip. This is one big gripe I have about the system. It needs to be much clearer or transparent so you know where you really stand so you can plan better. I don't mind working, but I also don't want to have to hang around if I really don't have to.

I have run into this same issue before too. The reserves available screen is basically useless for all the reasons you cite above. I would have thought DALPA scheduling would have been on top of this years ago to improve QOL for the reserves. But.. I guess the old "Don't worry son, you'll be senior some day" mantra is alive and well.

Superpilot92 11-03-2009 07:44 AM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 705621)
The company put themselves in this mess through the outsourcing to begin with. Screw them. It's time Delta pilots fly Delta aircraft.


+1 Exactly!!


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