I don't have a simple explanation. I was told that AA had better scope than Delta, but I have yet to see that translate into better prospects for AA pilots in comparison to Delta pilots. You would need to have a detailed business model for both carriers to determine the true causes. However, it was stated unequivocally that AA's RJ scope was better for the AA pilots and I haven't seen it. That is why I asked for an explanation. Sometimes it seems that the only statement that is "politically correct" is "all RJ's are evil and the world will end unless they are obliterated." Reality is complicated.

Has American bought 76 seaters for mainline due to their scope? 100 seaters? 93 1/2 seaters? Right now, they are replacing their MD-80's with 737-800's which is a slight upgauge. That has more to do with lease/finance costs and fuel economy than anything else. Remember, AMR never went to Chapter 11 so they didn't get to clean up their lease payments for the MD-80's like Delta did. Since Delta pays a significantly smaller amount for their planes, they can afford to keep the less fuel efficient mad dogs around. AMR can't. I will say it again, reality is complicated.

I wish I had a simple answer to this problem, but at least I admit I don't have the simple answer. Now maybe you can admit you don't have a simple answer either. The facts would point to a more complicated situation.

By the way, you can preserve my "written record" until the aliens invade planet Earth, it will probably be good for toilet paper at some time, but knock yourself out.

It would be brilliant to have the bottom 2000 delta guys fly RJ's because then the pilot group would be close to 14,000 pilots instead of 12,000. Another 777 CA who doesn't understand scope at the bottom of the list. Maybe you'll start to educate yourself when Virgin Blue starts flying the LAX-SYD route for us with the JV.

A L A S K A !!!!!!

Try going anywhere out west...

American bought those 80s for dirt and immediately sold them to the AMR leasing company, which at a significant premium, leased them back to American.

No. I'm saying that I doubt their 2000 plus furloughs are a result of outsourcing of their flying. There are other factors that can result in furloughs.

And yes, I am saying that I think the majority of jobs lost at Delta are due to outsourcing to RJ's. Hard to quantify exactly... but I know I'm far from alone in that opinion. Like someone else said, it's all water under the bridge at this point. The real question is, what are we going to do going forward to bring those jobs back and make sure no more jobs are lost to outsourcing. Kind of hard to do when you have MEC leadership that doesn't see or acknowledge the problem.

An airline has a certain pot of money it can spend. Do you want them to spend a lot of it to bring those 2000 guys up to DL wages and benefits or to regain some of the huge loses we've taken? Do you recommend a B-scale? Not sure how long you've been around but I've lost so much I don't want to share any future gains with anyone not on our list now. Either way you look at it it's a complicated problem. The best solution to me is to ensure any new 70+ seats are flown by DL pilots. I don't see us bringing DCI guys onto our list for many reasons. Let's create more high paying jobs at mainline and let the DCI stuff dry up on it's own.

IMHO that merger is a done deal just waiting for the right timing.
UA and CAL will have to tie the knot first.

Until then we will shrink and keep our 5 hubs east of the Mississippi...

Cheers
George

Quoting from ALPHA quoting me:

Quote:
Its the old "bait and switch," anytime someone brings up those numbers the typical response is "Well how many Pilots do they have on furlough?" The only problem with this comparison is that we would have similar furlough numbers were it not for all the early retirements.


Again, completely wrong. All but a few hundred of the early retirees would have been gone by December 2007 when the age 60 rule changed. Delta recalled hundreds of pilots and then hired another 700. American has about 2000 pilots on furlough. As I said above, they just lost a grievance about the number of RJ's and they lost another grievance about the minimum size of their pilot group. They have shrunk a lot.If we are going to argue about the issues, it seems we should at least have some semblance of the truth buried into our basic assumptions. Assuming no gravity, I can fly my jet with very little fuel. I would be Al Gore's hero.



Wow,
"Completely wrong" So the early retirements had "Zero" affect on recalls and hiring. Considering DAL recalls started in July 2004 in the middle of the retirement boom and just prior to the main exodus of early retirements I think you need to reevaluate this statement.

"Completely wrong," C'mon ALPHA, I bet you don't even believe that, and by the way, why did you end the cut and paste there? I went on to comment on hypotheticals and even said that DALPA generally does a good job. By attacking (completely wrong, once again) those who mostly agree with you, you do DALPA a disservice.
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Scoop

It is highly unlikely DAL wants to merge Alaska under its already big umbrella. It is far cheaper to leave Alaska on its own and use it to outsource more 100 seat plus jet domestic flying under its code share system. Even if DAL wants to buy Alaska, DOJ is unlikely to approve it any time soon.

As we are in the middle of 3 elections, coming close to SOC, and the first combined AE is right around the corner I feel like I need more information then I am getting.

I am a North pilot, Council 1 and I try to keep a informed as possible, but it seems to be much more difficult since the merger. Prior to the merger I could go on the NWA ALPA website and select any of the LECs and read the information that they were giving out to their council. Did the South guys have this available to them in the past? If not how did you get information out of other Councils?

One other item that concerns me is that DAL MEC wants all the LEC communications run through them prior to publication. For a reference, this was what was said at the last Council 1 LEC meeting by one of the LEC Officers to the group.

Do not take this as a shot at the South guys I just want to learn the ins and outs of getting information from different perspectives.