Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-29-2014, 12:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
I've been at Delta 17 years. I've flown with a few a-holes. If the captain isn't safe, the answer shouldn't be to put him / her on your no fly list so someone else has to fly with him / her. The answer is to address it through the CP or professional standards.
If the captain is just an a-hole*, I think of it as first officer responsibility to deal with it or upgrade.
*full disclosure - I'm an a-hole.
If the captain is just an a-hole*, I think of it as first officer responsibility to deal with it or upgrade.
*full disclosure - I'm an a-hole.
10-29-2014, 01:04 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by casual observer
I've been at Delta 17 years. I've flown with a few a-holes. If the captain isn't safe, the answer shouldn't be to put him / her on your no fly list so someone else has to fly with him / her. The answer is to address it through the CP or professional standards.
If the captain is just an a-hole*, I think of it as first officer responsibility to deal with it or upgrade.
*full disclosure - I'm an a-hole.
If the captain is just an a-hole*, I think of it as first officer responsibility to deal with it or upgrade.
*full disclosure - I'm an a-hole.
As previously discussed, the NFL highlights BOTH trouble Captains AND First Officers.
I have no problem with the system as it stands now. I don't agree with Captains being able to avoid FO's, however. Maybe it's because I've never been in that situation at Delta, but I think it's the Captain's job to manage the crew. If the FO is a douche, fix him, or send him back to the shop for a tune-up.
After all, you're advocating for a very pro-active attitude by FO's faced with a problem. Why not the Captain?
10-29-2014, 01:08 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Probably the best CRM lesson I've ever learned was ... just say "thank you" and fix it. "Thank you" or "Thanks" communicates a clear understanding and requires no debrief.
I do not know SWA's procedures. At Delta either pilot could have called the go around if it was unstable (enough to justify pulling the power at 100 feet flaps 40 to get down). Not that I've had to use it, but it's there ... .
I do not know SWA's procedures. At Delta either pilot could have called the go around if it was unstable (enough to justify pulling the power at 100 feet flaps 40 to get down). Not that I've had to use it, but it's there ... .
10-29-2014, 01:09 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
Originally Posted by Sink r8
You're correct about one point: you shouldn't use your NFL in lieu of addressing an unsafe guy through proper channels. On the other hand, if you don't like someone's personality, I think you (as an FO) have the right to bypass a higher desirability trip, to avoid him, and I think that's fine.
As previously discussed, the NFL highlights BOTH trouble Captains AND First Officers.
I have no problem with the system as it stands now. I don't agree with Captains being able to avoid FO's, however. Maybe it's because I've never been in that situation at Delta, but I think it's the Captain's job to manage the crew. If the FO is a douche, fix him, or send him back to the shop for a tune-up.
After all, you're advocating for a very pro-active attitude by FO's faced with a problem. Why not the Captain?
As previously discussed, the NFL highlights BOTH trouble Captains AND First Officers.
I have no problem with the system as it stands now. I don't agree with Captains being able to avoid FO's, however. Maybe it's because I've never been in that situation at Delta, but I think it's the Captain's job to manage the crew. If the FO is a douche, fix him, or send him back to the shop for a tune-up.
After all, you're advocating for a very pro-active attitude by FO's faced with a problem. Why not the Captain?
10-29-2014, 01:16 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
Bottom line...she pulled his throttles to idle at about 100 ft on a flaps 40 approach, before she said "I have the aircraft." I've never flown the 737, but that sounds like a really bad idea to me.
)
10-29-2014, 03:21 PM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: Skinny girl. Long legs. Big engines.
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by casual observer
I've been at Delta 17 years. I've flown with a few a-holes. If the captain isn't safe, the answer shouldn't be to put him / her on your no fly list so someone else has to fly with him / her. The answer is to address it through the CP or professional standards.
If the captain is just an a-hole*, I think of it as first officer responsibility to deal with it or upgrade.
*full disclosure - I'm an a-hole.
If the captain is just an a-hole*, I think of it as first officer responsibility to deal with it or upgrade.
*full disclosure - I'm an a-hole.
I think the Hermanator should be fired. The only person in my whole career that I wanted to punch in the nose. What a tool!!!!!
10-29-2014, 03:22 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Think 767-300 with the GE's ... not exactly the same, but the throttles close as the wheels touch if you do it right. (YMMV and mine usually does )
)
10-29-2014, 03:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Think 767-300 with the GE's ... not exactly the same, but the throttles close as the wheels touch if you do it right. (YMMV and mine usually does )
)
10-29-2014, 03:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by casual observer
I've been at Delta 17 years. I've flown with a few a-holes. If the captain isn't safe, the answer shouldn't be to put him / her on your no fly list so someone else has to fly with him / her. The answer is to address it through the CP or professional standards.
If the captain is just an a-hole*, I think of it as first officer responsibility to deal with it or upgrade.
*full disclosure - I'm an a-hole.
If the captain is just an a-hole*, I think of it as first officer responsibility to deal with it or upgrade.
*full disclosure - I'm an a-hole.
A-holes? MB one or two. My personal philosophy at my age is that "life's too short to have to fly with A-holes." If I get a trip with one, I drop it. If I see a slip in open time with one, I pass. If I see cool guys, I pick it up. 99% of the time, and that's really an amazing stat, it's a great professional experience.
I'm really impressed with the guys and girls Delta has hired. It's really an amazing cross section of talents, abilities and personalities. The NFL is a nice feature to enhance CRM. CAs, IMHO, should have the same access.
10-29-2014, 03:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
I agree with your sentiment about Delta people. In 17 years, probably only 5 rotations I would consider not wanting to do again due to personality conflict. Also, I've never flown with a Delta pilot I would hesitate to put my family onboard with (in regards to safety).
I've always been proud that I work with people that are willing to spend 8-16 hours together in a cockpit and then be willing to go out for dinner and drinks for another 3 or 4 (sometimes more).
Nice thing about working for Delta: I may have never met the next captain I'm going to fly with, but I pretty much know how it's going to go. And I'm looking forward to it.
I've always been proud that I work with people that are willing to spend 8-16 hours together in a cockpit and then be willing to go out for dinner and drinks for another 3 or 4 (sometimes more).
Nice thing about working for Delta: I may have never met the next captain I'm going to fly with, but I pretty much know how it's going to go. And I'm looking forward to it.
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