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Originally Posted by bohicagain
(Post 1762845)
I'm not putting anything in. If I'm reading it correctly then we can use HSA to pay for dentist and vision payments
My dental and vision bills usually come to about $1000-$1500 a year for the family. So I put in $1500 and and then carryover the amount that's $500 or less if I don't use it. Denny |
Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob
(Post 1762674)
So you wouldn't give up what amounts to 10%-15% of profit sharing for a 15%-20% increase in pay? PS is great when the company is making money, but inevitably the good times go away and without profit there is no PS. There still is the higher pay. If they want to monetize it, there better be a premium price attached to it.
Clearly with this level of profitability and survey results 20% to 25% date of signing is our bare minimum acceptable. So according to you management will add 15% to our hourly rates to reduce 15% of profit sharing. 40% hourly increase date of signing. Nonsense. Pure Pandora's box. If we touch profit sharing, we lose. We earned it and there is no reason to touch it. C2015 will be historic and needs to hit $1 billion in gains date of signing with zero reduction in profit sharing. |
Originally Posted by DALMD88FO
(Post 1762811)
I agree with most of the guys here about profit sharing. Keep your hands off. From what I understand, and this was from our union guys, we sold the profit sharing in C2012 back at too low a value. I don't know how we could have been so far off about the future profits with a pilot on the BOD and our EF&A guys doing their jobs.
I like the idea of negotiating a contract with new payrates then saying ok now if you want to talk about profit sharing it's going to be on top of those rates. I'm sorry but 4,8,3,3 just didn't seem like a good value when you had to give something up to get them. I know, I know the time value of money. One of the internet smart guys here needs to do some background work on RA. Rumor has it that one of the reasons he does not worry about labor strife is that he has never let a contract expire. Meaning he always comes to some sort of deal. If that is the case I wouldn't keep throwing that 2-3 years and the NMB around so that everyone gets scared. Especially not our own union. |
$6 billion in profits (my projection for 2015) = 29% profit sharing
$10 billion profit = 54% profit sharing All this on top of our 20% plus date of signing C2015 hourly increase. We don't need to fund our increases with concessions. |
Profit Sharing
We would be fools to consider any change in profit sharing (PS).
First off PS is now part of our contract, status quo, so to speak. Why should we have to put it up for consideration at all? The company may want to decrease it - who cares? Even if we did decide to monetize it how could we be sure we are getting a good "rate of return?" PS is growing very quickly so lets enjoy it. If the company wants to drag out C2016 let them - our PS will help minimize the pain. If fuel continues its slide who knows how high PS can go. Oh yeah, I forgot about the dreaded "Black Swan" (BS) event. Well we have to stop worrying about something we have no control over. Besides if we do have a BS event everything would be on the table - it would be an all hands on deck to save the company type of deal. And we know what that means - Labor takes it in the shorts permanently, management takes a temporary hit but that reaps a windfall for "saving the company." So in reality, if we decide, foolishly in my opinion, to "monetize" PS in order to inoculate ourselves against a BS event we must realize that it would only help for a very limited range of BS event. Too small an event would not matter, too large an event and we get hit with a Force Majeure anway. So maybe, just maybe, we might get a good rate on monetizing our PS. And then maybe, just maybe, we have a BS event of just the right size magnitude that our profits are permanently affected but the company does not hit the Force Majeure range. I for one would be willing to take my changes on this. Dont touch PS! Scoop - My 2 cents |
Originally Posted by Scoop
(Post 1762947)
We would be fools to consider any change in profit sharing (PS).
First off PS is now part of our contract, status quo, so to speak. Why should we have to put it up for consideration at all? The company may want to decrease it - who cares? Even if we did decide to monetize it how could we be sure we are getting a good "rate of return?" PS is growing very quickly so lets enjoy it. If the company wants to drag out C2016 let them - our PS will help minimize the pain. If fuel continues its slide who knows how high PS can go. Oh yeah, I forgot about the dreaded "Black Swan" (BS) event. Well we have to stop worrying about something we have no control over. Besides if we do have a BS event everything would be on the table - it would be an all hands on deck to save the company type of deal. And we know what that means - Labor takes it in the shorts permanently, management takes a temporary hit but that reaps a windfall for "saving the company." So in reality, if we decide, foolishly in my opinion, to "monetize" PS in order to inoculate ourselves against a BS event we must realize that it would only help for a very limited range of BS event. Too small an event would not matter, too large an event and we get hit with a Force Majeure anway. So maybe, just maybe, we might get a good rate on monetizing our PS. And then maybe, just maybe, we have a BS event of just the right size magnitude that our profits are permanently affected but the company does not hit the Force Majeure range. I for one would be willing to take my changes on this. Dont touch PS! Scoop - My 2 cents |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 1762942)
$6 billion in profits (my projection for 2015) = 29% profit sharing
$10 billion profit = 54% profit sharing All this on top of our 20% plus date of signing C2015 hourly increase. We don't need to fund our increases with concessions. Much like OPEC the big 4 airlines in the US are trying to mine every dime they can get now with little thought to the future. OPEC has finally received the message and now wants to keep oil in the 70 to 80 range but they are to late. The question is will airline managements be to late. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered! |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1762994)
You forget a fundamental fact of business. When profit margins reach the 15% level capital and increased capacity flood the market. We might hit 5 to 6 billion next year but after that new airlines and more seats will pop up everywhere.
Much like OPEC the big 4 airlines in the US are trying to mine every dime they can get now with little thought to the future. OPEC has finally received the message and now wants to keep oil in the 70 to 80 range but they are to late. The question is will airline managements be to late. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered! |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1762994)
. We might hit 5 to 6 billion next year but after that
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1762994)
You forget a fundamental fact of business. When profit margins reach the 15% level capital and increased capacity flood the market. We might hit 5 to 6 billion next year but after that new airlines and more seats will pop up everywhere.
Much like OPEC the big 4 airlines in the US are trying to mine every dime they can get now with little thought to the future. OPEC has finally received the message and now wants to keep oil in the 70 to 80 range but they are to late. The question is will airline managements be to late. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered! Sailing, keep bringing up reasons and drivel as to why we should not demand better pay/benefits:D It is entertaining and straight out of the book. I still love you man! TEN |
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