Again, I support our MEC but I see no reason for this LOA, or any LOA etc., not to be available to the rank and file so as to provide input before the final MEC vote. Why is that so wrong?

Denny

 

It doesn't matter who we've elected Bar. The MEC administration runs this show and we didn't elect them. Your 4 LEC reps are strong proponents of being a rubber stamp for the MEC administration. My reps vehemently disagree, but are in the minority. Thus the anger and disunity on our MEC. It's absolute tyranny of the majority on the MEC right now and it's being enabled by the four ATL reps. My only question is whether those four really represent the majority view of ATL based pilots.

Our negotiators do NOT have that now Bar and it's a totally self-inflicted wound. They've chosen to be part of the strategy of ruling top-down in an organization that advertises itself as bottom-up. A minority of our reps are fighting that hard. I support that 100%. The majority shows no sign of compromising in any way with the minority. They're only trying to actively crush them. Utterly dysfunctional.

It is this mindless jingoism that has brought us to where we are. It is in our best interest for the MEC administration to operate in and cultivate a bottom-up culture. They refuse. And they send out people like you to convey veiled threats against anything other than supporting the MEC administration.

The fight's on between the jingoists and the bottom-ups Bar. You guys are counting on the continued apathy and dejection of the pilot group. You guys might be right, but we'll see.

Carl

 

Exactly. We have some great minds in our group. The quiet ones.

 

Thanks man, but that ship has sailed. This TA will pass exactly as is because the MEC administration has decided they won't allow the debate that helped us modify the FAR 117 LOA to occur this time. The MEC administration has ordered a 100% data lockdown until after the TA is passed and becomes binding. The four ATL reps are in lock step agreement with the MEC administration and will run interference for them until this passes.

What can still happen is the realization by line pilots that our current negotiating committee affirmatively negotiated the exact same kind of language that has brought us the multi-year non compliance in our AF/KLM/AZ Joint Venture. This negotiating committee is HAPPY with this language. They think it's a good thing. This is the exact same negotiating committee that will now take us into C2015.

Our only shot here is an effort by ATL based pilots to recall all four of the reps in favor of four new ones committed to a bottom-up culture. If that could happen, it would give a majority to the LEC reps and allow a clean slate restart of the MEC administration. ATL line pilots are the key to this. If this MEC administration takes us to C2015, we are sunk. This LOA language is proof of it.

Carl

 

Carl,

There will always be a small percentage who would rather flight their fellow pilots than fight for their fellow pilots.

Nobody sent me anywhere. Yet again you are stating stuff that just is not true.

 

They don't care either way about DPA supporters being back in the fold man. Any more than they care about anyone's support. The MEC administration feels they have the process locked up and they are there for life. They have a very effective political slander machine against any reps who stray. The new kid in ATL saw this during the recall hearings of Kingsley Roberts when he tried to perform as he campaigned he would. He was beaten into submission when the other 3 ATL reps threatened him with a guaranteed recall if he didn't vote in alignment with them. Now the new kid is a lock step supporter of the other 3 ATL reps.

ATL line pilots could change it all if they wished for the change to occur. I just don't know if they do.

Carl

 

Translation: When you voted for your rep, that's all the direction you'll ever be permitted to give. When the reps give their direction to the negotiating committee prior to negotiations, that's the end of their input...even if the negotiators don't follow the direction. Reps should then vote down the TA you say? Can't do that because management doesn't respect negotiators who don't have full support of the MEC.

I've posted the exact language, so you already know whether it's a language improvement or not. But with you, the language doesn't matter anyway because: "The Dude supports his MEC"...right?

Carl

 

Hey fellas. I know this scenario is a repeat question from probably 1,000 pages ago but it appears that the Captain I am flying with has a SAQ for the first turn of our trip. Am I correct that there is no way to get released from this turn before I show up? It would make the difference in me having to commute in the night before just to show up in the AM and sit at the airport for 10 hours waiting to pick up the rest of the trip.

Thanks in advance!

 

Carl, call an Atlanta Rep. What you state is not correct.

So this is now morphing into yet another call from C20 to recall C44's Reps? I hope not. That is not how we build unity.

Just a few pages back you stated C44 was going to blow into recalls over our EVP election where a C20 member was elected. In fact there is nothing of the sort on the Agenda which was re-sent to members today.

Your strategy has no logical conclusion. Nobody has the votes to recall anybody. It just isn't happening, so why make the threat? Then if by some miracle 2,000+ pilots decided to go along, who would you try to get elected? (don't worry, I do not want the job) but, you don't like any of the reasonably viable candidates when they occasionally show up on APC.

Bottom line, Delta pilots benefit from a functional MEC. "Our" candidate is President. He takes the position (as does the US DOT) that the Narita slot swap must be handled as a block; not allocated piecemeal. As a 747 Captain you should realize that somewhere around 1,300 to 1,500 Delta wide body jobs hinge on our keeping our slots. United has an immunized JV partner, we don't. If you review the data ANA+UAL's pacific gains have appeared to drive our market retreats. Watch UAL as a leading market indicator.



... and realize Vanilla Air is a wholly owned subsidiary of ANA which is co-branded, so you can combine their lines on this chart.



IMHO, that's the big picture. We should not be fighting just to fight.

 

Even if you could get that approval, I wouldn't do that if the majority of ATL line pilots were jingoists like you. I truly don't know whether the way their reps are behaving isn't exactly what the majority of ATL line pilots actually want. When Nestor got elected, that appeared to me to be proof that a majority of ATL line pilots wanted a change to the top-down culture. But now that Nestor has been fully assimilated, I've seen no move to recall him even though he's rejected everything he campaigned for.

First, the DPA isn't going to happen now. Terribly sad, but true. Second, your description of a TA as a "done deal" really says it all. It just re-confirms the current MEC administration's belief that a reps ratification of a TA must be automatic. It is an unreconcilable disconnect between the two views on our MEC. The fact that you could even ask that question is stunning Bar.

By the tried and true method used back when ALPA wasn't a top-down dictatorship. We got to see a little bit of it when our reps sent the negotiators back to the table AFTER the negotiators signed their first "done deal" in the FAR 117 LOA. The MEC administration is trying to stop that from ever happening again by ensuring that members don't have the facts to debate them with until after it passes. And you're perfectly OK with that. Stunning.

Carl