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Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1864791)
The QOL ship has sailed.
There are simply not enough guys who care about quality of life. Time off has clearly become secondary among Delta pilots. The majority wants to work to the FARs. If we didn't give up efficiency (QOL) I don't think we'd see much of a pay raise. I remember during C2012, people were clamoring for SWA Pay! Sailing (I think) said, watch out for asking for SWA Pay - you do that and you'll get SWA efficiency and that will result on a fair amount of you on the street. |
Originally Posted by iaflyer
(Post 1864903)
I think lots of people want QOL, the problem is that we (as in DALPA) go to the company and say, "we want a pay raise" and the answer is, well, what will you give up for that, and the answer is QOL.
If we didn't give up efficiency (QOL) I don't think we'd see much of a pay raise. I remember during C2012, people were clamoring for SWA Pay! Sailing (I think) said, watch out for asking for SWA Pay - you do that and you'll get SWA efficiency and that will result on a fair amount of you on the street. This isn't a case of giving up efficiency to get payrates, it's a case of failing to acknowledge the QOL trade-offs made in an efficiency gain. It's a very simple issue, really: if we want to pack more flying into each day of flying, each day of flying is contain more flying, including the first and last days of a trip. If we want short days at either end of the trip, then we're going to have to fly more trips, or work longer trips. |
Originally Posted by RockyBoy
(Post 1864845)
I disagree.....those who work to the cap do so to make ends meet and be able to save enough to send kids to college and have more than Ramen noodles in retirement. So a cap will just make certain people struggle to do what they thought they were going to be able to do with this career 10 years ago. I know we can talk about poor decisions all day, but we never talked about poor decisions prior to bankruptcy and lost pensions.
How about we restore the profession so guys can make a living, have a nice house, maybe an airplane or boat, send the kids to something other than a community college, and not have to sell everything they have when they retire? If we could do that on 75 hours, I'll bet very few would fly over 75 hours. That is the problem, not a cap.....if you bring back a cap, bring back the hourly rates and work rules that went with it, not just the cap alone. Only trust fund kids want the cap only back. You're wrong. Over the course of a career you're wrong. You move up to each step on the pay tables a couple years earlier. You can work 75 hours and make the same money as 90 hours if you are in a higher paying seat. Then you can actually enjoy the kids and the house and the boat. That's what a cap does. Listen to the old timers. They've been there and done that. A monthly cap works. The old saying used to be "the contract protects us from the company AND from ourselves." We lost our way in bankruptcy. We need to find it again. |
It doesn't matter how much of a pay raise we get; there are always guys who have some issue, or live beyond their means, who simply must fly 90 to FARs. I'm tired of getting sold out by those guys.
We've got to protect ourselves from...ourselves. cap |
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1864929)
You aren't grasping the concept. You're one of those guys who have grown accustomed to working 90 hour months and thinks therefore that only working a 75 hour month would have to mean a pay cut.
You're wrong. Over the course of a career you're wrong. You move up to each step on the pay tables a couple years earlier. You can work 75 hours and make the same money as 90 hours if you are in a higher paying seat. Then you can actually enjoy the kids and the house and the boat. That's what a cap does. Listen to the old timers. They've been there and done that. A monthly cap works. The old saying used to be "the contract protects us from the company AND from ourselves." We lost our way in bankruptcy. We need to find it again. I'm all for a cap, but not with our current work rules and pay. Getting 75 hours of credit at Delta takes about 15 days of work. Getting that at SWA takes about 11 days of work. Bring back the work rules we had when we had a cap with restoration of pay rates and I will be the biggest cheerleader in the camp for a cap. |
Since we're talking about bringing back stuff we gave up, I'd like C2K rates, adjusted for inflation.
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Since we're talking about bringing back stuff we gave up, I'd like C2K rates, adjusted for inflation. Thanks.
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Yeah, how about we focus on increasing our payrates before we focus on limiting our income.
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1864933)
It doesn't matter how much of a pay raise we get; there are always guys who have some issue, or live beyond their means, who simply must fly 90 to FARs. I'm tired of getting sold out by those guys.
We've got to protect ourselves from...ourselves. cap |
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
(Post 1864941)
Yeah, how about we focus on increasing our payrates before we focus on limiting our income.
^^^^^^^^^^^EXACTLY^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And lets not trade pay raises for productivity gains. |
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