Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1871303)

Assumptions going in:

717s were coming anyway negotiations should only cover pay rates on any new plane...not whether the plane is being bought.

?88 717s would come anyway...and quickly... to overfly RJ routes while still operating the RJs? Capacity purchase agreements weren't real? And RA tooo dumb to have plan B. Wouldn't rehab old jets? Nope, never done that before...

Profit sharing funded "raises" all other increases were inflation adjustments to bankruptcy rates.

?Pilots portion of 125M funded 20% increase in payrates?

The company now does have more planes than at the merger, in numbers. There are significantly fewer of the biggest jets.

?Biggest change in big jets? 747-200s which were toast? Older 767s going. No real replacement available for 757s except 739/321.

Hiring frenzy is at least 80% a result of retirements...compare post merger to current day.

Retirements are just starting. Standby for more hiring.

30 day months account for a 3% manning cut.

? I don't know. Show math please!

DALPA neither demanded or got anything except furlough protections. They only got lucky with a smokey back room promise of growth vis a vis 717s. They caved hard on scope.

?...neither demanded or got anything? This is utter nonsense.

Our gauge is smaller.

?We don't control fleet plan. Lottsa markets upguaged to mainline 717 vs RJ. Shoulda got 76 seaters on mainline... maybe as furlough protection. Some widebodies retireing. 60 on order.

New hires, don't get caught up in what happened before you got here. Whether it is better than the military or your last regional/airline has nothing to do with whether concessions occurred. We have fallen far. It was way better before, do not be afraid to vote it back to how it was and should be.

I'm gonna actually agree. Things aren't as good as they used to be. A lot has happened in my almost 30 year career. Anyone who thinks they'll have a 30 year career with zero changes or adaptations to the business or your contracts is delusional. Its life. Most recently the entire industry went bankrupt. We had to adapt. We've now adapted and C15 needs to be pretty good.

I am sure I have left some things out that were clear concessions in my view. Did some good come? Absolutely. Not nearly enough.

Originally Posted by trico (Post 1871335)

I don't know the about manning on a macro scale, but I just finished an 88 hour domestic reserve month because of the +15 hour concession, which was sold as a help to the company in international categories. It affected my wife's manning :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by trico (Post 1871335)

It affected my wife's manning :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1871313)

You really need to get on the phone with flight operations and let them know about the windfall in manning they don't seem to know about.
As far as big airplanes we don't control the fleet plan. As of 31 June 15 we will be down a net of two large airframes. Widebody block hours however which is the key to jobs are up.

Originally Posted by OldFlyGuy (Post 1871362)

Not nearly enough. It could always be better. 2/3 of the folks thought it was enough at the time. The company was still recovering. Shareholder equity was a negative number. No one else in the industry was moving the bar at all and everyone's negotiations were proceeding at a snail's pace. We are back for round 2! My only advice to new hires is to read everything and vote with your brain. OFG

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1871442)

My math on 3% manning adjustment is in a 31 day month, each day is approximately 3%/day. Subtract a day of the month, you need 3% fewer people.

I don't dispute that we are back in negotiations. I don't dispute the state of the industry. I also don't dispute that while I've been here, DALPA has traded our only true leverage-able section of the contract (section 1) for a weaker and weaker position. I've said it before, I don't know why the company even wants to negotiate with us, we have no leverage, we pi$$ed it away.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1871225)

What were those concessions Carl? It was not manning. It is obvious to anyone who can read the monthly reports from crew planning or just pick up the phone and call crew planning.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1871251)

Go back and read my other posts. There were offsets to those changes that kept any manning losses to a very small number the biggest of which was counting all known absences for when a reserve was full. Again crew planning did not make any manning assumption changes with contract 2012 and the monthly reports show there was no pilot job loss relative to block hours flown. The result is the hiring we have seen.

Originally Posted by Omar 111 (Post 1871396)

Trico,

I understand it sucks to work 88 hours on reserve, my sympathies. That being said, I think it would be constructive for ALPA to put out just how many reservists have flown over ALV in the last three years, broken down for domestic and international. I understand the long international trip argument, but I think it is abusive domestically when it is so easy for schedulers to break up trips.

FWIW, I have never seen anybody over 80 hours on the reserve available list in my category. For tomorrow in MSP, these are the hours flown to date: 36/20/3/46/31/32/42/38/42/38/16/67/36/45.

Omar