Oh man. That rationalization for our predicament seriously worries me.
Do you really trust management that much? We've been there and done that.

Anderson might be saying, "C'mon, let's just do it. I promise I'll respect you in the morning", but I'm not a naive teen-age virgin anymore. I'm not buying it. Show me a ring big guy.

"Payback time", just like "unprecedented growth" and "new 100 seaters" has a way of disappearing if its not in writing.

Bucking Bar, if you still interact with him, you can tell him he was right, but also he was part of the problem. I have no idea what he may have said beyond the scenes, but in public he was a mouth piece of management which further alienated the pilot group from DAL. JMO.

You can't understand the pilot mentality of C2K until you understand fully what happened under POS96. That contract was negotiated in exactly the opposite scenario. The company was not doing well, and ALPA negotiated a 2% pay cut, along with a four year pay freeze just as the economy and company were turning the corner to the upside. In the middle, with the company making record profits, ALPA asked for a renegotiation and was told "a contract is a contract". Leo was just coming on board and had his chance. He blew it. We picketed the day he arrived. That short sightedness on DAL's part was a huge blunder.

His statement became the rallying cry which led to C2K. Many saw the economy turning down, but it didn't matter. That's also what caused LOA46 to be delayed for so long. The roles had reversed and now the company was asking for mid contract renegotiation which they desperately needed. But ALPA simply came out with the same "a contract is a contract". That short sightedness on ALPA's part was a huge blunder. It led to, among other things, the termination of our pension, as the increased funding requirements coupled with the mass exodus of senior pilots created a run on the bank that crippled the DB.

The rest is history.

acl, great post (I deleted most of it just to save space). Having said that, every time ALPA has done what you requested -- provide more communication why any particular deal is a good one, and why the decisions they made were the right ones, has been lambasted as a sales job.

If they DO communicate - they get slammed for a sales job
If they DON'T communicate - they get slammed for not communicating

Tough position to be in.

Do we need to go over this again?

It is my take on what is the game plan. What I see is the overt willingness to work with management to get the company in to a position to allow a payback without any friction with the board or the stakeholders. That is how I read the actions of the MEC. I did not say that there were not issues with this approach. I am just stating how I see it. Get it?
I hope it works, but I will not be floored when we are told they cannot afford it in 2012,13,14,15,16......

I want payback, I want the 100 seat jet here, and a commitment and major (billion(s) dollar(s)) cash penalty if it doesn't, I want Section 23 changed, Section 1, and three changes. We can go on. You know where I stand.

Just give the facts to the pilots as you know them.. the group has the intelligence to make the right and hard decisions to support the MEC

Since it's the same either way just communicate...
The silence is deafening

At least a few bullet points on here's how we see the JAL situation and what it means to Delta pilots....

...so I don't have to read about it in the paper before I hear it from my own people...

Cheers
George

There is a point that needs to be made, actually a few!

1) It is their job to state the facts, reasoning et al for a given vote, decision, or position

2) It does not matter if they are irked that it is taken and thrown in their fact, it is their job

3) If it is always thrown back in their face, could there be a possibility that the tail is wagging the dog, and more pilot input is needed so that the pilots a) see the reasoning, or b) get the point that this is all we could get and the mec is not full of it c) that what the mec is working for is not the will of the pilots

4) IMHO a LEC/MEC reps job in a pilot vote is not to tell a person why or why not to vote a certain way. It is to state the fact, educate those who are asking, give their reasoning on voting a given way, and to let that vote determine what their position is.

Every ALPA volunteer KNOWS it is a thankless job. If we really have a group in there that is sick and tired of trying to educate the group and has gone in to bunker mode, then we have real issues.

I am sure the MEC knows that there is not enough support for a revolt if you will, and therefore knows that they can push through their agenda as they desire. It is bad business and imo in the end will hurt the overall effectiveness of this association.

my .02

That's a sad state of affairs.
How about getting somebody in there who is willing to try again?

Mea Culpa.
I should not have said "Do you really trust mgmt that much?"
Should say "Does the MEC really trust mgmt ....

My main problem is -- I think you are correct.
Our plan seems to be give Anderson everything he wants in the hope of some vague future payback.

I could be wrong, and we are fighting every inch of the way, but that is not how it is being presented to the troops!