Now that's funny!! :D

Here's a plan. Send me to negotiate:

Bucking Bar - Haneda Negotiations

(must read the captions)

I told you that there are people watching this forum that sit right outside the VP of flt ops door! (Very capable people at that)

Do I know her from EV? Doing training on the Hawker right now?

Slowplay (and his evil twin the communications guru) is a master of this. Just pick out a few points out of context and focus the debate there. In other words, if you can't win the argument... change the argument!

Too bad most can see that.

His skill is the fact that he picks out the crap that gets under your skin so you are compelled to respond! He is very good at what he does.

Now now, Slowplay and Sailing and Alpha all bring interesting points of view to the thread. They speak more authoritatively as to what the MEC is really thinking than most of the rest of us.

As to those in management, or ALPA, watching this board I doubt they even consider the opinions expressed here. They have much better information and they have a business to run. They might be like those of us who simply are Delta fans, have been Delta fans since they were kids and come here to see the "latest and greatest."

I'm not sure any of us have nearly enough facts to draw conclusions on a JAL joint venture. Based on past performance (and the obvious) our union will sell out junior members if they believe it benefits the more senior majority. This aligns our MEC with management to the extent that they can partner on outsourcing deals. "Relevance" might be a pseudonym for being willing to deal away our own jobs.

we've already "sold" so much RJ flying that we've flooded the market and management doesn't even need all the sub 76 seat scope relief they've got. The next market has to be something else, or somewhere else.

With "lines in the sand" who knows where they are drawn? From a pure economic point of view, the outsourcing argument works all the way up to whatever position the MEC Chair and those in power occupy. Once we decide that we are OK with selling each other out, the decision on where the line is drawn gets very fuzzy. While I understand the economic arguments for bargaining scope, as a union I have to see this as a moral absolute which can not be compromised. We must stop selling one member's job to benefit another member.

This all having been said, I have NO indication what so ever that our MEC is, or would, deal away another pilot's job. The political rhetoric seems to be more conservative on scope lately. But the candidates really did not adopt unity, or any other method to recover flying. ACL65 had the best plan, but he did not get elected, possibly because he was transparent & honest about scope.

Bottom line, we don't know where this is going and we really should not be critical when we are ignorant of the facts.

Pandering does not suit you. :eek: ( You do have a point, they do share their point of view like we do fairly freely on here. Good or bad we know what they like and do not like)

They consider the opinions and observations as landmines to avoid. We give them a good heads up on what the dolts might be thinking. ;)

Guess what, that is what pilots do. They tel their union what they want, and the idea is that since the union works for the pilots, the union pilots (you and your boss) would go out and try to make that happen, not tell your fellow pilots why everything is not possible nor probable.

Wasn't pandering - - you did not have a chance to read the whole post because this web site signed me out before I could get the thing posted. Besides, pandering would do me no good.

You might know a lot more about this JV and staffing than I do. JAL turned in a dismal quarter and my concern is whether we could keep them (and us) afloat long enough to turn that around.

As you mentioned, in C44 I think Mike Hansen has a good perspective on this and I'm glad we elected him. I also think our current Reps have a good viewpoint on this issue. They do a lot better on flying that they don't see as beneath them. For example, they fought mergers with RJ operators, but did not hesitate to understand that unity with NWA was something we needed.