Gspeed

I agree with you on principle alone. But you better believe that they will expect ALPA to pay for it as a piece of the negotiating pie. And if that's the case, then I don't have much stomach for it.

sailingfun

We also used to pay for hotels if you were ATL based or converted to ATL for a new category for all training including CQ and transition. If you were still on probation and bid to new equipment the cost of a hotel for 6 weeks was about the same as a months pay.

Herkflyr

Sailing is right. For all you newer guys, please realize that our contract often sucked--badly--back in the day, even though we might have "had a pension." The work rules were so far worse compared to today, I laugh every time read someone whining about "QOL" when they really have very little perspective.

The contractual language stated that a pilot got a hotel room only for "training away from his base." Since near all training is in ATL, that meant that all ATL commuters--thousands of them--were on their own for all CQ and all (!) initial qual events. How about that? Here you are a longtime commuter, get your dream 767A bid...and it is back to a crashpad for six weeks! (the training footprint was longer then also, since no distributed training).

We fixed this, and many other things, "one small bite of the apple" at a time, most of it post-BK. You'd never know that listening to some.

But...further improvements are always needed. Better DH language, better crew meals, better(!!!) reroute language and pay guarantee, etc. And new hires should get hotels for all their training.

Han Solo

This is called talking out of both sides of your mouth. Of course we need improvements to the contract, but if nobody ever brings them up they'll never happen. Is your solution to remain quiet and hope really hard that things get better, or perhaps only people with a hire date (and perspective) similar to yours or earlier get to voice their concerns?

sailingfun

Perspective is important because it provides context to assumptions that are often wrong. As a example you often hear the union does nothing for the junior people and is controlled by senior pilots. The reality is that over the last 30 years the two most improved sections of the contract are reserve and junior pilot pay.

Buck Rogers

A history lesson for perspective combined with possible solutions for improvements sounds like a pretty reasonable approach.

"Matches and gasoline talk" prior to the exchange of openers sounds a bit......rash?....imprudent?....illogical?

Herkflyr

No, absolutely if you are new, and have valid complaints, air them! This contract is a constantly evolving thing, and we can and should ai for improvements.

All I care about is what works. What works is *most* of the time working with the company, getting improvements whenever you can, while still being willing to fight a strong fight when warranted.

Sometimes there are significant improvements via Section 6 (TA 2), sometimes there are failures (TA 1) and sometimes there are lots of small improvements, none earth-shattering on their own, but compounded on top of each other result in a significantly improved contract (several side letters, FAR 117 agreement etc).

What this current MEC seems hell bent to do is appear tough, taking marching orders from the social media naysayers and chit chat crowd...while accomplishing very little. If that worked, I'd be on board more than I am. However it doesn't work, thus my skepticism.

However they are our union leadership, good or bad. I wish them well and still think that we can secure another very good contract. I just think it will take far more time than it should.

Buck Rogers

Sage advice, indeed!

Denny Crane

A question for you. Do you think our current MEC compared to the one that sent TA2 to us has more or less of the "Reps" taking their marching orders from social media naysayers/CC crowd?

And I'll be upfront with this jab.......At this point, I'd rather them take the stance they are taking than be like previous "Reps" who couldn't get their noses out of managements collective (you think of a three letter word.)

Denny

Denny

TED74

I'm happy to "pay" for new hire hotels with a quid pro quo, although I accept I'm probably in a (growing?) minority. It's the right thing to do for the newbies and I'd like to leave things better than I found them. Of course the company should just do it, but they haven't. Let them show their hand what we have to pay to get our newest and lowest-paid union brethren compensated like almost any other career on earth (not to mention like most other carriers I know), by the most profitable carrier around. Let it be known how management nickel and dimes such things; it'll offset the false narrative that the company takes care of their "family" and blunt the sting a newbie gets the first time his CPO experience isn't what was advertised during indoctrination.