I think it was posted pages ago, but I am not sure this is a low cost item. I bet the union has a data point on how much it would cost to implement this. I for one am all for it. I think it was thanksgiving of 15 there were coverage awards around 40% so this touches more people than just the super junior. Just not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze when the numbers come back on how much it costs to implement.

 

If we all had half the passion bobzzzz has against holiday pay for the bigger issues (scope, retirement, pay) we'd be in great shape!

 

Im not against any pilot asking for what they want.

But im guessing we hav maybe a thousand different lists of priorities among 14000 pilots.

What i do have a problem with is whining about the individual hardships any given pwa compensation or scheduling metric presents.

None of us are gona be stuck in the starus quo of an individual situation over the entirety of a career. So using individual anecdotes to rationalize alteration of universal pwa applications is foolish.

And using the pwa language and terms as means to influence and direct pilot behaviors and priorities to benefit some is antithetical to a unions purpose.

Ask for what you want. In the end its the majority that will decide.

 

Everyone knows what's in store when they take an airline job.

No one is whining about working a holiday(s). Some find more value in having that time off than others.

Some pilots would rather have a 1.5x override than the holiday off. You contend they won't be swayed. Perhaps not, either way it wouldn't take away any senior pilots ability to bid the holiday off, just reward the pilot working a bit more.

My observation after a couple of decades in this business is that money motivates some pilots, perhaps your bidding pattern is immune from monetary concerns but I assure you that in the other 14,000+ pilots there are some that are.

Ironically, I've thought about this for years, and I can actually avoid the holidays for the most part currently. Right now with younger kids, I too would avoid the holidays even with the override, but I'm not everyone.

Someday, I may bid into a category again where the holidays are harder to get off, and I'd think a 1.5x override would make the trip a bit more acceptable. Eventually, my kids out of the house, I'd bid the holiday trip on purpose with a 48hr layover in Europe and take my wife with me.

I've brought up holiday pay override every contract negotiation and survey. I don't whine about it in the interim, but if we don't ask now, when?

Improving our contract with ideas from others is not the eternal sin. I have no idea how much it would cost. Lots of devil in the details. How many GS's go out each holiday? How much CPO enforcement goes into holiday coverage? 20yrs ago, I got tagged with SDO (duty officer at my squadron) during the Xmas period. When I dropped mil leave for this duty, I got called and asked to send in a copy of my actual orders for this period (the only time in 11yrs of reserves).

Obviously the company / ALPA would have to know the data to cost out the details, but if you never ask, you surely never get.

 

"Comically low valued?" You haven't been here long have you? Prior to the FAR 117 agreement, and a couple of side letters prior, here were our work rules.

1. We had a thing called VM (Variable Minimum) that essentially averaged 5 hours a day for regular lineholders. While not 5.15, it was close right? Not even, and here is why.

2. VM (and its successor, Duty Period Average) did NOT apply to
...reserves at all; especially with 2-3 day trips, the reserve sitting in the one seat would get paid less, if not far less, than the regular lineholder in the other seat. Two-day trips could--and often did--pay a reserve as little as four hours.

...dh-only duty periods
...30 hour layovers
...the last day of a redeye, say LAX-ATL

3. While I think the whole min day concept at least should be examined, be wary of what you wish for. Commutable trips would likely decrease significantly. I don't commute, so its not as important to me, but it surely matters to a lot of others.

 

The low cost item thread is another thread. I didn't studder. I know it's costly. If every trip is worth more, and it will be, its the pay raise you want. I havent run the numbers across every fleet but it'd be huge on mine.

I deleted the history lesson. Firstly, im newer than you, but ive watched you all fumble with pay to get it more in line with what you want. Congrads, all us airline pilots have been there, it sucks. What i want are higher credits trips which will give us more days off (thats how it works). The company will respond with less 30hr overnights and less commutable trips. For junior bases, commutability turns out to be important for the company when it's a junior base and everyone bags out sick. Theyll say we will lose it, then miraculous, it comes back.

I commute, if i get 30 hrs i want it at home with my kids, not on the road. I dont mind coming in a day ahead of time, i pay for a crashpad.

Im one voice. If the pilot group doesnt want it, fine. But these trips credit value is laughable, it was just that in the past they were more laughable. The min day may seriously screw up the bargaining history and strategy delta alpa has sought, but it says a lot a real min day is already on the ask list so i doubt it.

Soft pay is also hard to take away during the next bankruptcy.

 

I don't know about a min day, but at least it'd be really nice to get ADG up to 6:00. That would put a 3 day at 18 hours and a 4 at 24. Much better than we have now and maybe wouldn't have as many downsides as a straight min day.

 

As has been alluded, a lot of us had holiday pay in our previous crappy regional. Was it ever in the Delta PWA? Was it lost during the bankruptcy concessions?

 

I know there is another thread about low cost items, pretty hard to not see this thread is not that. My point is, this might be a lot larger pot of money than all of us think it is. Also, there is no direct data point or information that shows this will help junior people get the holidays off.

Now with regards to trip credit, I agree 100% with you. I would love high credit trips so I can be home more.

 

You may have missed it. I dont care about junior people getting a holiday off because i work for an airline, have for a decade plus, and have missed damn near all of them. I would ask for free shoe shines in every base before i tried kludging that one together. I celebrate holidays before or after and that includes kids birthdays.

Outvote me though, i may be the only guy that's gotten used to working for an airline.

Soft pay is extremely expensive, this will be the third time in 2 pages ive premptively or reactionarily made that point. I want a giant robust expensive contract for the company or else theyll simply set the money on fire instead.