Iv already said nothing wrong with asking for more $$.

Its the tinfoil hat crowd that rationalizes the holiday pay request as a way to modify and control pilots behaviors.

Its equally laffable to cite 'industry standard' and what out FAs have or dont have.

Comparative envy logic is stock and trade for the crowd you seem to belong to.

Just stand up and say you want more $$. For no other reason than you want it.

Honestly....you will find it very liberating.

 

We get it Bob. You care about you and that’s it. That’s fine. You would like all gains from negotiations to go into your pocket and no one else. Because we’re whiny and might want gains as well.

The concern with other people’s bidding comes from the fact that it snowballs down the list. As you’ve been repeatedly pointing out, seniority gets what it can. Low seniority gets what’s left. This could (despite your adamant denials) change what’s left at the bottom of the list.

Is this “weirder” belief that people can be influenced at all related to the reason you’ve spent days using the same tired arguments against holiday pay? It’s normal though when you do it, right?

 

Ok. What part of my saying go ahead and ask for holiday pay is against it?

I encourage you all doing so. Just spare us the cry me a river of being 'forced' to work like some kind of slave and the envy game of what others do or dont have.

Ask for it because you want it...and want the $$ that comes with it.

I dont concern myself with other pilots schedules because its not my business....or something i have any input or desire to control.

 

Or we could ask for it because of the reasons we stated. I don’t get your incessant drive to show all of us what our “true” reasoning is. Does it make you feel better about yourself to be surrounded by other selfish (at least in your mind) people? If you don’t care about my schedule, why are you so worried about me wanting some holidays off?

 

I don't think anyone has just one want.

As long as we're putting things up, how about a real min day. Many if not most of these 21 hour trips should be 24-27 hours if you had a real min day. Forgo the dollar amount, 10-20% raises across the board. Min day for reserve too. Some of these trips are comically low valued.

 

Ahh. Yeah the other side of the envy card....accusations of selfishness.

You all continue to crack me up.

Smacks of insecurity of ones self worth to have to make excuses in asking for a pay raise.

Just ask for it because you want it.....and stop with the 'poor us' song.

To approach the other side with cries of being 'forced' to work while you are in a 3%er-1%er paid occupation is guaranteed to get them laughing behind your back....if not outright to your face.

Nobody in management feels sorry for you...or thinks you are somehow being abused in a job you asked for, and compensates you so well.

So go ahead and ask for the $$ because you want it and are worth it.....and let it price itself into the pwa cost to management.

 

I don’t think anyone has said “poor me.” Holiday pay was suggested. You argued against it. Reasons were given. You argued against them by saying they were false cover ups of the real reason. Now you have stopped arguing against it (did checklistmonkey influence you?) and have stuck with the money grab accusation. To top it all off, now we are just whiny, woe-is-me types.

No one asked for managements sympathy, and you’re the only one saying abuse. Any more false accusations?

 

Well....it began with moralizing over the sanctity of (lost) family time and being forced....forced mind you...to work. Hilarious.

And progressed to the FAs have it and JB and the nebulous 'industry standard' plea. Oh...and the claim its a tool to modify and control selected pilots bidding behaviors.

Emotional and pretty adolescent persuations.

Any of those rationales at the bargaining table are not likely to get any traction. Or sympathy.......

See, its them you will have to convince to cough up the $$....not me or any other pilot.

You could try floating your advocacy to your cpo....or maybe email the ceo directly?

He may be completely unaware of the horrors of the conditions of your employment at delta.

So go ahead and ask for it. If it gets worked into the pwa costing we all get to vote on if its worth it or not.

In the mean time stop with the sob stories about 'forced holiday labor', FA working condition envy, and the heavy burden other pilots bidding behaviors place on your life.

 

Gosh Bob, I’m glad you explained how it works to be employed for a company with union representation. No one has to work here, someone has work holidays, we can’t just nicely ask Ed for it. You’re a true hero bob, a true hero. We’d be lost without you.

Or, maybe it was brought up here as an idea for negotiations. I, and I’m sure others, put it in the contract survey. Maybe the negotiating team gets it in an agreement or maybe they don’t. Maybe someone else sees and likes the idea and voices it to their rep. Maybe they agree with you and voice that to their rep.

 

Holiday pay for a pilot is one of the very last things, under free shoe shines, that I'd place on an ask list. But if he wants try to convince pilots that its worth more, what does it matter to you? You think anyone is convinced we NEED holiday pay? Common.

I don't know how much it makes sense to increase the pay rates when theres a lot of soft pay that could use some work. Everyones W2s would still jump up and your time would be valued a lot higher, possibly get some more days off.

The dal pwa is for us, lets make sure this thing is robust, and get the most value, not try to set any industry bars either. I'm tired of hearing about pay rates on my 21 hour 4 day that would be worth 27 at some regionals. That might mean an extra day off or two with the same pay. If delta management is gonna try to turn us into 80-85 hours or bust in all categories lets make sure that the trip value counters their tactic.