Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 790439)

No sweat, hockeypilot. I had a sign-in an hour ago, but had to call in sick just to keep this thread alive! :p Oh, and watch the basketball game....

I only fly the trips on my line I want to. I call in sick for all the rest. Their MY sick leave hours anyway, right?

Originally Posted by Waves (Post 790450)

THE COMMUTING ISSUE: (Good point Rocky!) My disclaimer, I'm not a commuter, but--------
OK, here comes another history lesson and reminder from the old guy (me) and even more importantly, the old guys that I flew with when I was a young guy. You don’t have to listen, and you may not care to, but you will find that for the most part I have an agenda. My agenda is to return our profession to its once grandeur nature where we were well respected and well compensated. Are you with me so far? It is a huge undertaking to say the least, but it can be accomplished to a degree. I hope you stubborn and know it all new guys will pay attention. I used to be one of you until I learned that I didn’t know squat. Only the guys before me forging the way had true knowledge of our endeavor. I can only hope to now be considered one of those guys. I am truly on your side.
The commuting topic has much further reaching implications than anyone has addressed so far. Damn, that means I am the old guy here. Ha I’m not going to get too deep here, but the commuting topic brings up another history lesson and reminder of which I will attempt to share with you. This profession used to absolutely rock, but since we have been forced to give so many concessions over the last 20 years, things have drastically changed. This is understandable do to cyclical economics, but the problem is, is that these adverse changes have been in place so long now, that they have become completely and unnecessarily accepted by all pilot groups as the NORM. The majority of the pilots now on the list, truly do not know how fricking good it used to be. I see so many posts from so many that reflect this NORM. My hope is to break these thoughts as the NORM. These are the thoughts that limit us from recovering our past. Our past was incredibly better than our now. Damn it, Get with the program. Ha
Airline Pilots in the past were (overly) highly compensated and had loads of time off. Captains I flew with would disgustingly brag about their mansion homes and second vacation homes. Then they would let us know that they only worked about 6 months of the year. Many of them were commuting from exotic places and living the life. Apart from the bragging part, we all excitingly aspired to be just like them. I knew Captains that commuted from the Islands, Bangkok, and many other places around the world. The Pan Am guys were famous for this. I was never in a position to do that, but I still want it. Do you? Or do you think that commuting from Dayton to DTW is a sin? My God man, (slapped your face) we are airline pilots! Don’t jump on the concession band wagon.
Problem: Understandably, some of you guys are stuck in the so called NORM, and do not understand how it was, and how it could be again. Airline pilots are free spirits, not cattle. We should be able to commute from Cancun, or Moscow, or wherever else we desire. If you subscribe to the idea that we should work 82 hours per month, sell all vacation pay so we can work more, be limited in where we live and commuting is an evil choice, then I say you have no business being an airline pilot and should return to the military or wherever it is you came from. Domestic commuting?????, R U jackin me, let’s talk about International commuting.
The Cost: Yes there is a cost to this. As in my previous posts which caught a lot of flak, there is a cost for every single item we want. Making commutable trips is one of them. Having said this, long range commutes certainly become the burden of the commuter and not the responsibility of the company to ensure commutable trips. Nature of the beast.
Moral of this story: It took over 50 years to get what we had, but it only took 5 years to lose it all. Let’s get our act together and get it back. Are you with me? Cause if you’re not with me, you must be against me. LOL
LETS GET IT BACK!

Originally Posted by Waves (Post 790450)

THE COMMUTING ISSUE: (Good point Rocky!) My disclaimer, I'm not a commuter, but--------
OK, here comes another history lesson and reminder from the old guy (me) and even more importantly, the old guys that I flew with when I was a young guy. You don’t have to listen, and you may not care to, but you will find that for the most part I have an agenda. My agenda is to return our profession to its once grandeur nature where we were well respected and well compensated. Are you with me so far? It is a huge undertaking to say the least, but it can be accomplished to a degree. I hope you stubborn and know it all new guys will pay attention. I used to be one of you until I learned that I didn’t know squat. Only the guys before me forging the way had true knowledge of our endeavor. I can only hope to now be considered one of those guys. I am truly on your side.
The commuting topic has much further reaching implications than anyone has addressed so far. Damn, that means I am the old guy here. Ha I’m not going to get too deep here, but the commuting topic brings up another history lesson and reminder of which I will attempt to share with you. This profession used to absolutely rock, but since we have been forced to give so many concessions over the last 20 years, things have drastically changed. This is understandable do to cyclical economics, but the problem is, is that these adverse changes have been in place so long now, that they have become completely and unnecessarily accepted by all pilot groups as the NORM. The majority of the pilots now on the list, truly do not know how fricking good it used to be. I see so many posts from so many that reflect this NORM. My hope is to break these thoughts as the NORM. These are the thoughts that limit us from recovering our past. Our past was incredibly better than our now. Damn it, Get with the program. Ha
Airline Pilots in the past were (overly) highly compensated and had loads of time off. Captains I flew with would disgustingly brag about their mansion homes and second vacation homes. Then they would let us know that they only worked about 6 months of the year. Many of them were commuting from exotic places and living the life. Apart from the bragging part, we all excitingly aspired to be just like them. I knew Captains that commuted from the Islands, Bangkok, and many other places around the world. The Pan Am guys were famous for this. I was never in a position to do that, but I still want it. Do you? Or do you think that commuting from Dayton to DTW is a sin? My God man, (slapped your face) we are airline pilots! Don’t jump on the concession band wagon.
Problem: Understandably, some of you guys are stuck in the so called NORM, and do not understand how it was, and how it could be again. Airline pilots are free spirits, not cattle. We should be able to commute from Cancun, or Moscow, or wherever else we desire. If you subscribe to the idea that we should work 82 hours per month, sell all vacation pay so we can work more, be limited in where we live and commuting is an evil choice, then I say you have no business being an airline pilot and should return to the military or wherever it is you came from. Domestic commuting?????, R U jackin me, let’s talk about International commuting.
The Cost: Yes there is a cost to this. As in my previous posts which caught a lot of flak, there is a cost for every single item we want. Making commutable trips is one of them. Having said this, long range commutes certainly become the burden of the commuter and not the responsibility of the company to ensure commutable trips. Nature of the beast.
Moral of this story: It took over 50 years to get what we had, but it only took 5 years to lose it all. Let’s get our act together and get it back. Are you with me? Cause if you’re not with me, you must be against me. LOL
LETS GET IT BACK!

Originally Posted by Gnewt (Post 790452)

Dude! You get an "A" for sheer bloody mindedness. Good grief man. We get it. You think commuting is a choice. Good for you. As a commuter I like 5 day trips because I don't have to commute as often, and it cuts down on the hotel costs. A few thousand others agree with me.

Go Butler

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 790448)

There you go being North-centric with the me attitude.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 790459)

Grandpa, times have changed. There are other companies who ran circles around your non-productive work rules of decades past. The result your company, as well as all the others with pilots of your mindset, went bankrupt -- or damn near close to it. Those days are gone, long gone. As much as I'd love to have them back, as we say in the south, it ain't happening.

Also, I'm not going back to the military. Sorry. Maybe you should move on?

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 790424)

Waves, actually, that's EXACTLY what most on this board DO dispute. So DON'T do it! It's NOT worth it! I agree there is more to it. That's why I'll ALWAYS support a pilot's right to commute. I just don't want to pay for special accommodations to encourage the practice. That is a cost to the corporation, which ultimately comes out of my paycheck, to be blunt. And I've had enough people take chunks out of my paycheck already![/size][/font]

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 790464)

Of course, there are those among us who have completely capitulated, and given in to Stockholm Syndrome, so I think that Waves' attitude is the least of our problems...

Nu

Originally Posted by Gnewt (Post 790463)

Again with the missed point. Mine is a universally understood (with the odd exception of one Pineapple Guy) pilot penny pinching concept. Less money spent working for DAL = mo' betta.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 790471)

I don't have Stockholm Syndrome. I'm all for getting what we can in contract from the company. But the reality is, unless ALL pilots from every company get the same, there's going to be productivity and financial benefits to the companies that don't have expensive pilots and pilot working rules.

Your company must stay competitive, otherwise, you die.

And seeing as how our national union is championing the causes of underpaid overworked pilots (regionals), we're screwed.