Capt;
He is not stating that we will not do that. He is stating it is finite. That is two distinctly different things.

We will tell them what we want. They will tell us what they are willing to give, and we will go from there. Those to initial proposals put the book ends on the cost of the next PWA. That alone put a finite cost on the pwa.

I used to be a pony fan when I lived out in Estes Park... a million years ago... but now I have gone back to the roots, and I am waiting for Vince Young..( thanks again Super... for what, I don't know...) and the Titans to get that extra yard at the end of the Super Bowl. So I don't know how I would feel about TT taking charge in the Big D... I think he has a shot though, because the cupboard there isn't exactly overstuffed with QB talent...

In one respect, the PWA is like owning stock. The only "finite" number it can have is zero, and one should never buy it thinking that that number is a real possibility.

Go AAPL!

I don't always agree with alfa but I have to with the post you are referencing. The contract IS worth only "so" much money. I see him saying we need to add to the value of the contract. Whatever that value turns out to be, the MEC and pilots have to decide if it is enough and how it is going to be divided.

In your post you are admitting that there is a "pie" or, in other words, a "finite amount of money." I think the difference might just be in what both of you think is an adequate size for the "pie to be."

Denny

I agree with you that it is finite but Alfa is always saying that what one wants comes from anothers wants. That is BS. We can have what we want and it does not need to detract from the others.

There is no reason that finite can not accommodate everyone. When he pushes ideas to the contrary it makes me wonder as to who he actually is...

He's NOT saying that. Let me give an simple example, perhaps it will help.

Assume we could negotiate to get a 50% payraise, 20% DC, 500 hours of sick leave, and those precious unlimited PS passes for commuters. :)

Now, the question is: is that the mix you want?

Perhaps you'd rather have a 60% payraise and only 300 hours of sick leave. Or,
Perhaps you'd rather have a 55% payraise and 25% DC. Or,
Perhaps you'd rather have a 30% payraise and a private jet for your commute in....

The bottom line is that regardless of how big the pot is (unless it is truly infinite), there will be trade-offs among the various items, and it will be up to the MEC, after receiving input from their pilots, as to where those trade-offs will be.

Pilot unity, MEC unity, MEC leadership, the economy, Delta's balance sheet will all determine the total size of the pie. THEN, it will be up to us to divvy it up to target our most important items.

This is common sense to all, except those who still claim the pot is infinite. And if you fall into that camp, you can disregard this message. There's nothing more I can say.

If you are willing to set the ceiling before we even sit down to the table, then yes there is nothing more for us to say.

Their balance sheet is made by wizards in accounting who can make the black turn red. We need to tell management what our product is worth and they can find a way to pay for it. That is not our problem. We should not price our product on what they say they have, we should tell them what it costs. They can raise the ticket prices a couple of bucks and pay for everything we want. Why sell yourself short and fight their argument?

We seem to be acting like a whipped dog. We come to the negotiating table with our head hung low and our tail between our legs. Ridiculous.

These will be some of the most, if not the most important things for us. Not easy with a 12,000+ pilot group, but I think we can do it.

Estes Park?! Wow, nice place.

Two ways - click the link "Pilot Standards" under "Flight Ops Resources" on the left side of Flt Ops home page to see a list of LCPs or click on your fleet link (DC-9, M88, etc) in center of page to see the list of all managers for the fleet.