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Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 777091)
The play book is to get the planes(dc9-30/40) off the property first, then go for the relief. There will not be a single 100 seat jet on property at DAL during the 2012 contract. They will then ask for a limited number of 100 seat jets to be flown at the regionals to replace the DC9's. No one on property will be affected by the change. It is the selling out of the future pilots not on the seniority list YET.
Of course that is the right time to do it. It just means that junior ppl will stay junior for an extra 10 years. The problem is that they will need to buy 100's of billions of dollars in 150+ seat jets and by waiting to do so they are setting up for a very valid financial argument about the 100 seat flying being outsourced. Too bad the are horrible card players. My offer to help them with their problem is, I do not care what shell corporation flies the jets, but there will be DAL pilots at the controls. We can fly across certificates. That point should not fall on deaf ears. They want so "save" money by having the financial obligations off of their books, great, that is a corporate deal. I am a pilot and pilots can fly across certificate lines. That is one good thing RJET has proven. |
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
(Post 777102)
Anyone on the MEC or negotiating committee who gives up one penny for a "pension" should be recalled immediately, and all DAL pilots feel the same way.
While our pension termination was horrible and painful, the bottom line is that we realize that a pension is merely a "promise to pay." Those promises are becoming increasingly difficult and impossible to pay for most if not all companies. We won't for one second give one penny to the company for a "promise" that we all know will be reneged on at the drop of a hat. You get it back, it can and will be taken again. The other option is to have a pooling pension that a third party runs. It could have been set up and run by ALPA and or Fidelity with the payout, but to start one now would cost a ton of money for start up. |
Originally Posted by Maddog Waddle
(Post 777119)
Maybe it is time to take scope off the table in any further negotiation.
Of note, this is what those manufactures are stating. Why, their jets have not been bought by the mainline carriers so they need to start something to boost sales. After all they have billions invested in R and D that need to be repaid. |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 777263)
I would venture to bet if AMR or UAUA orders that jet, the 100 seat market will come to mainline. The biggest issue for a company is being the first to agree to let the over paid arrogant mainline pilots do it. If one agrees and the rest do not follow suit the competition is not balanced.
I do agree that the flying will come to mainline, but it will take a staring contest like no other. now imagine a scenerio where amr ordered 50+50 E19Xs and DAL responds with order 50+50 Cseries and then UAL does the same, wonder what happens to RAH? |
Like I said, One moves the other will and the slide stops. Part of the benefit of waiting until 2012 to start talks. (That is unless the company commits to flying it here)
I can say that more and more senior A's (circa 1988 and earlier) are stating to me, no more scope, not for pay, not for retirement. If you want the house to stand it has to have a good foundation and if that foundation keeps getting eroded la casa will not be around for long. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 777276)
wonder what happens to RAH?
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 777279)
Like I said, One moves the other will and the slide stops. Part of the benefit of waiting until 2012 to start talks. (That is unless the company commits to flying it here)
I can say that more and more senior A's (circa 1988 and earlier) are stating to me, no more scope, not for pay, not for retirement. If you want the house to stand it has to have a good foundation and if that foundation keeps getting eroded la casa will not be around for long. |
Originally Posted by satchip
(Post 777283)
My experience has been just the opposite. That is until my last trip. The captain I flew with was a top 50 NYC ER A and was completely on board with no sell outs for pay. My props to him. He even let me have both legs!
Most realize that if you see 100, 125 seat ranges that their QOL will go down as guys will move in above them that are sitting on the 320 and 73N. It wakes them up real quick when you pull out a category list, and seniority list and show them what ppl would move in above them if they sold said scope. Most guys I fly with would love a pension but realize that boat has sailed. (Even if one was offered most realize it would not last) |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 777282)
They smile ear to ear because with the c-series deal, they now own the maintenance rights to all the engines on the new next gen narrow bodies.
We still talkin cars? |
The deal is exclusivity. Just like us and our rights to negotiate with Delta Air Lines, Inc.
It will give them a boat load of cash. It will sustain RJET. If they make it to 2015 and take deliver of that jet, it means a lot of money for them. FWIW, I keep hearing DAL does not like that jet, and favors another..... |
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