Super, I'm new to this civilian thing, but I don't see long call as "duty" for FAR purposes. I've not no obligation while on long call. I just have to be able to report for duty when 12 hours from the time they notify me. I could be sipping a Mai Tai on the beach in Bimini if I had a private jet to get me back to NY in time for report. It's not rest either but to say the Company is violating the FARs for not calling it duty is stretching it a bit, IMHO.

As far as your former contract is concerned, was the fact that you had separate SC/LC bid lines a factor in the wording? 7 days of reserve for the junior guy would be 7 days of SC. That would be duty and hence the contract wording and scheduling practice? Just grasping at straws here.:confused:

Let's say that a person is 50 years old and has a current portfolio of about $500K. (I'm just using this as an example. These are not my actual numbers. And I'm leaving out contributions for the sake of making the example simpler.) Based on a 12% average annual yield, that number is going to double approximately 2.5 times between now and age 65. This would result in a projected portfolio of $3 million at age 65.

If you use the rule of thumb that most financial advisors suggest, you could take 4% of this portfolio each year as annual income without running out of money before you run out of breath. That would result in an annual income of $120K in the year 2025... $89K in 2010 dollars. Roughly equivalent to current First Officer pay. Cut it short at age 60, and that $89K retirement income (in 2010 dollars) is substantially less.

Now, fortunately, the investment method I use is rather unconventional and should allow a higher rate of withdrawal in retirement. The rule of thumb that is recommended for my method is that I can take about 80% of my annual yield out as income and still sustain my investment method without cutting into the principle. So, if I am getting an annual yield of 12% on a $3 million portfolio, I should be able to take about 80% of $360K, which is $288K per year in retirement income. If I retire at age 60 instead, then the portfolio is worth $2 million and could sustain an average annual income of $192K. In the year 2025, $288K and $192K would convert to 2010 dollars of approximately $213K and $142K respectively.

As for the PBGC... It's like I said in my other post. I'm not comfortable with counting on that. It will be a nice bonus if I ever see any money from it. But it's not part of my financial plan.

So, as you can see, a 12% annual yield may not actually result in a retirement income as great as what it may seem at first glance. And that extra 5 years makes $1 million difference to the value of the portfolio in this example!

Anyway, that's just my investment/retirement philosophy and the plan I am using to reach the retirement goals I have established for myself and my family. Take it for what it's worth... this post is being written by a pilot using "math in public", you know!!! :D

Satchip,

Thanks for understanding. While it is in my best interest to maximize my income for the next 15 years, I also want what's best for this profession. I take a lot of pride in what we do and I have a lot of respect for anyone who has achieved success doing this for a living at this level. Scope would be an example of something where I am not willing to give in the slightest... no matter how much money they throw at me.

I think you may need to check your math on that, unless you're including a substantial inflation rate to account for current dollars.

No, not factoring any inflation rate into that number. If you take $500K and compound it at 12% over a 6 year period it is just slightly less than double. To make the math simpler, let's round the doubling to exactly every 6 years, even though it takes a hair over 6 years to double. With 15 years to go and doubling every 6 years, that $500K number should double 2.5 times (actually, slightly less than that). 2.5 times $500K is $1.25 million.

What number do you get, and how are you getting something different?

EDIT: Okay, you are absolutely correct. That's what I get for trying to do this too fast! Sorry. $500K doubled 2.5 times is $3 million. I'll have to come back later when I have more time and fix my example because that throws all the other numbers off. That red glow you see on your screen is me blushing!

Under Nwa regardless of whether you were lc or sc if you're on call 7+ days you'd get a 24 hour break if you haven't had one. On or schedules it would even say "FAR" on that day. On occasion they'd call us and release us mid day for 24 hours and we'd be back on call at the same time the following day but it met the FAR requirements. More often though they'd give us a calendar day off.

You guys can do it all you want but if I get in that position I'm not doing it unless I have official documentation from the union and the FAA that it's not against the regs like it was for us under nwa and how it was at my last airline. It's in the FARs that I posted above plain and simple. DAL is trying to say what it considers duty and what it doesn't which is wrong. Nwa was cheap as could be but they at least followed the FAA regs. I don't see why you guys are trying to argue this on the companys behalf? :confused:

Deleted as you got the answer!

Thanks for your patience. I have corrected my original post/example.

Still embarrassed... :eek:

It looks like the way they are dealing with this is, if you are going to be assigned a trip after you have already been on reserve for 6 days they will have to release you for 24 hours before you report for that assigned trip. That will give you the 24 hr rest in the previous 7 consecutive days for look back.

Jsut a thought, but being on reseve, being in base this doesn't worry me much, but it would be REALLY nice if iCrew or eCrew had the capability in this day and age to send a text or email to you the minute something is added to your schedule. I know going from an off day to an on call day you have to check your schedule at 1500, but if the scheduler put a SC on at 1000 and you got a notification, that would give you more time to plan to get into position. Just think it would be an easy "setting" to implement and be benefitial to all.