You guys talking about quality of service and passenger response are hitting the target. How we convince management that the RJ subcontractors (that is what they are) are detrimental to the bottom line is convince them they are ruining the Brand. As subs the company doesn't control the quality of the product. When a passenger buys a ticket that says Delta (or NW or AA or CAL) and they have a bad experience on a subcontractor they don't blame Comair or Compass or Colgan or Eagle. They blame Delta et al. When employees of subcontractors don't provide good customer service, the company can't hold them accountable. When subcontractors fly around with jets painted just like the mainline jets, your brand is diluted.
In this time of increased competition for more scarce travel dollars, brand means everything. Someone getting on a Delta plane in Macon or Fargo bound for Amsterdam or Capetown should have a seamless pleasant experience from the time they arrive at their home airport till they come home. The same level of commitment to Delta (or AA or CAL et al) and customer service from the regional feed to to the international wide body is essential.

Anderson I think wants to run an airline. If any management can be convinced that the subcontractors are ruining the brand these guys can. We have to try. Convince them that it is in their best interest that all Delta routes are flown by Delta employees so there is the same level of commitment and accountability. How much revenue do we lose because of a poor experience on a subcontractor? Capital returns require capital investments.

end of rant :-)

Whomever said the C jets are RJs and the E jets are not is absolutely right. I commute on both and the experience, hands down, is 100% more pleasant on an E190 than a CR900. Say what you want about JetBlue, but they have shown us how a "RJ" can be a great mainline airplane. I doubt they would have been nearly as successful if they flew CRJs instead of the E190.

Isn't it so that the more people behind you on a seniority list, the better off you are? Am I missing something here?

I don't think attaching seniority lists together is the issue here. At the end of the day we are all pilots working towards similar career goals.

I think the whole comment about flipping with compass pilots on the seniority list may have leaning towards integrating them into the SLI, thereby putting DAL/NWA junior to compass pilots. (Lalo37, correct me if I'm wrong)

I think the true issue here is that the line between regional and mainline flying has been blurred over the recent years. Where does scope clearly define it? 70 seats? 100 seats? Legs less than 400 n.m.?

At the end of the day there will always be "regional" flying and "mainline" flying.

I think certain regional companies look to mainline pilot groups to prop them up to better payscales and work rules. I am not trying to make light of the fact that many individuals have worked very hard to improve things at the regional level, I am merely trying to say that the competition is overwhelming.
The competition, being other regionals willing to do the same job for less money. Mainline management will do what makes sense for "mainline", I think if the pilot QOL/pay standards ever get raised at the regionals it will have to be from the ground up.

Until pilots, as a whole, start refusing take sub-par salaried positions under loosely-enforced shoody labor agreements, regional pilot groups will always be fighting an uphill battle.
Ask yourselves this, if at your current company management all of a sudden announced a 50% pay cuts for all pilot positions? How many pilots do you think would still show up for work?
Better something rather than nothing, that's the mentality most pilots are up against, when, in my opinion, it should be nothing without something.

Don't think this should become a Mainline vs. Regional thread, both rely on one another.

Just my two cents.

I'm all about recapturing the flying for mainline, but I can see a couple of problems with a Compass staple.

1. This one isn't exactly PC, but I can see why someone like Lalo would have a little heartburn about bringing the Compass guys on. While many in their pilot group have tons of experience from previous airlines that went belly up (ACA/Indy, for example) there are also pilots there who were hired with the minimal experience required to get hired by a regional. I know of several junior and furloughed ExpressJet FOs who are now flying there. The argument could be made that they have yet to pay their "dues" to get on with a major.

I don't exactly subscribe to that philosophy, but as someone who started flying 20 years ago, has been through the ups and downs of the industry and just last year finally made it to a major at age 38, I can certainly see why someone would feel this way. For a 21-year-old getting his first airline job, a staple would be hitting the jackpot.

2. Compass serves as a great buffer and detriment against furloughs. I have no proof but I suspect that one reason we have not furloughed so far is because of Compass. If we furlough, that's a guaranteed extra 300+ training cycles that DL has to absorb. This is not counting the same training cycles it must then do as pilots get recalled.

Again, I may be speaking out of my a$$, but I think that without Compass, it would be much easier/cheaper to send guys to the street.

Then so be it. I have no problem if a few guys "hit the jackpot" in order for us to recapture the 70 seat plus flying back to mainline. Even the majors such as Pan Am, TWA, etc., OCCASIONALLY hired guys right off the street back in the day.

I agree. Until people realize this isn't about "me" it's about correcting the past eff ups then we will never get the flying back. It seems like the majority of the hits that have that mentality are the straight military guys. Anyone who comes from a regional knows how important it is to not sell scope Regardless of the size of "RJ". Putting those guys on the bottom of the list to secure that flying is a very small price to pay for getting that flying back. Not to mention that the compass list is typically made up of experianced airline pilots that have been furloughed from other airlines. Not the typical 500 hour wonders.

People need to look past their nose if we are ever going to "fix" the scope giveaways

I'm afraid this will not come across very "politically correct", though I'll try and be as tactful as I can...

Speaking only of Delta, I can tell you that whoever does the hiring does a darn good job. I say that because as a general rule (close to 100%) the cockpit atmosphere is very harmonius. The guys and gals we are paired with are well trained, competant, educated folks. They are a pleasure to fly with as well as drink a beer (or two) with.

Delta has certain hiring standards in terms of experience, qualifications, personality, etc, etc. Similarly NWA and other carriers have their standards, as well as criteria for what they're looking for.

I think it's fair to say the hiring standards at regional carriers are substantially lower in terms of flight experience, education, etc. Many pilots at the regionals would meet mainline hiring standards, but some would not.

That's the problem as I see it....

I agree 100%. Gotta see the big picture. Most compass guys would like a staple instead of waiting 30 months to flow and we get the flying back and more seniority. Win win for us and the industry

This is a little off subject but it is about delta. Did many pilots have any of their retirement being managed by the guy that faked his death in the last couple days. They mentioned a retired delta guy in the paper.