No...not even close to something that well planned. This was very simple. Airline management were sick of paying pilots what they were paying them. Every time they tried to reduce it, pilots threatened some kind of labor action. Management finally figured out a way. Get people to cave in on scope language and outsource the flying to pilots who will do the job for far, far less. After all, pilots are pilots...there will always be pilots willing to work for next to nothing...right? The RJ guys proved the latter to be correct, we major guys proved to be short sighted idiots for agreeing.

Disturbingly simple actually.

Carl

If you want to continue this "chicken or the egg" argument, if you hadn't sold out on scope then there wouldn't be an RJ guy there to work for peanuts, would there. Regional managements had to get the contracts first, before they knew how many pilots to hire. For those contracts to exist, mainline pilots had to cave on scope...............

If I follow your logic then you actually thought that it was ok to cave on scope because you didn't think anyone would fly the airplanes for those wages?

Bed is Made.
 

Well gentlemen, the bed is made(scope) and we made it. Does not matter Who tucked in the sheets or put the pillowcase on the pillow, the fact is the bed is made. It is lumpy, old, smelly, and doesn't lend itself to a good nights sleep. New sheets might help, but it is time for a whole new mattress. That's what we gotta figure out, what kind of mattress to get so we can get a good nights sleep. Also we need some new sheets to go along with that new mattress and box spring. Just who do we pick to get that new mattress for us now that Moak is departing. I see that we have 2 options, 1. Lay here in this lumpy bed and complain about who made it. or 2. Figure out a way to get a new bed with nice new sheets. Sooner or later the company will need something really bad. It always comes around and that is when we go mattress shopping but we really need the right guys shopping for us. Don't forget a couple of new feather pillows to boot.:D

There it is, proof that the egg came first! Oh wait, maybe that is the chicken, I can't remember now

The difference between me and guys like Carl is that I am not interested in laying blame. That aside, as I have stated before, the best thing for all 121 pilots is for RJ's to go away. Nor ALPA, USAPA, SWAPA, APA, IPA, or any other acronym can do this for us. We must demand that flying back through our own LOCAL councils.

Finding someone to blame might make you feel better, for about 5 minutes, but ultimately it will not solve the problem.

Get over it, get off your ass, and do something CONSTRUCTIVE about it!

You coming unhinged won't change my fact based opinions.

Your problem with me is that I place any blame on anyone except the major guys. You don't like that I lay half the blame on the guys flying the RJ's. You believe RJ pilots are blameless...I get that. I disagree.

Lots of other ways to fly...been discussed already many times.

I've always accepted my share of the blame for this. This despite the fact that I ALWAYS voted against every contract that had scope relaxation in it. But my vote doesn't matter, because the majority did cave on scope. I was part of the group, so I share the blame. You guys refuse to accept any.

I can tell. :eek:

Carl

That is correct. I've never disagreed with that.

Carl

Then I am not sure how you can continue to blame the RJ pilots?

If I follow your logic then you actually thought that it was ok to cave on scope because you didn't think anyone would fly the airplanes for those wages?

Either way Captain, you have got to get past it. ALPA does not serve 2 masters. The local councils serve their pilots and nothing else matters in the structure of the system.

And that is just a fact.

Of course you are. These boards are full of the RJ dominated population constantly blaming the major guys. I've disturbed the echo chamber by telling you that you're partly to blame, and the echo chamber claims they've never cared about who is to blame. There are many thousands of posts that clearly show the contrary.

If the RJ guys are really not interesting in placing blame, then stop blaming. You stop blaming, then I'll stop correcting you.

Anyway, 30 RJ guys against 1 old fart = inability to type fast enough. Going to bed now. Have fun.

Carl

Because after we caved on scope, none of that caving would have mattered if nobody took the jobs. Management would have been left with huge egg on their faces. I don't run from my share of the blame...you have some too.

Never thought it was OK to cave. I BEGGED my fellow pilots at the time not to fall for the bait and switch. I lost, thus I am to blame as well.

Nighty night,

Carl