We are. Many DPA cards are in .

Cut the attitude.

Sweet irony!

Pilots don't bother to nominate or vote...but they'll "vote" to toss out an organization they never bother to participate in?

Sign me up for THAT train wreck!

The "attitude" comes from watching dogs chasing cars. What are you going to do when you catch it, Lassie? Are you going to REQUIRE all pilots to participate? To vote? To bother?

Your mouth is writing checks your apathetic peers won't pay.

How's my attitude now?

The reason pilots don't "bother" to vote is because ALPA's bureaucracy has proven immune to any attempt at change that it does not want. After years of seeing your votes not count, and resolutions not accepted or tabled, some pilots have decided that the organization is corrupt and not changeable. Some of those pilots have decided that voting within the ALPA framework is a useless endeavor.

Then comes the DPA with the hope of something new, and pilots are voting in droves. If you had the ability to think critically, I wouldn't have to explain this to you. Next time, I'm sending you an invoice.

Carl

Ah, yes! DPA will be perfect! All 12,000 of us will have a clear measure of control, and everything will be EXACTLY as each of us wants! The decision-makers will be pure populists, and all decisions will be made by referendum! There will be no bureaucracy, and every single resolution passed by .017% of a local council's members will become the rule for all Delta pilots.

You amuse me.

Nice name calling. I vote, keep informed, and I go to all the meetings that I am off for. Not sure if that suits your standard. Anything else?

Are you able to read...or do you only write? Never said DPA will be perfect.

I know it's easier to provide counterpoints to points that nobody but you is making, but it makes you look poorly educated.

Just in case you didn't know, pilots are drug tested. If you really are a pilot, I suggest you clean up. Quickly.

Carl

Yeah. That's great. Next time you're at a local meeting, do me a favor and report the number of your peers you see in attendance.

Then read the ALPA web board, and report the number of your peers who post.

Then report the number who bother to vote.

Then tell me how the DPA is going to overcome your loneliness. Tell me how it will force pilots to participate. Tell me how it's structure will be different...how it won't be run by elected pilots who must weigh the sometimes counterproductive actions and narrowly-focused directives issued by its membership (those local resolutions) against their more-informed judgement.

Tell me.

I'd bet most of the people who take the time to print, sign, and mail in a DPA card are the type of guys who are involved in ALPA and vote whenever there is a vote. I think most of the guys behind the DPA movement have been in ALPA positions at one point or another and are not the type to just roll over and do it the way it has been done. They can see that change from within is most likely not possible at this point.

With due respect it is the arrogant "we know best" attitude at the core of apathy of which you speak. People have tried many times to make a difference only to realize effecting change at ALPA is futile. Many have become frustrated to the point of looking elsewhere for representation.

You don't have to go to a meeting to be informed. Most people won't go because they are commuters or are working during the meetings.

The ALPA web board is pathetic and most won't go there because your name is on there and they censor it so I wouldn't say that is a good guage of union involvement.

I'll give you that the voting numbers are pathetic along with the number of guys who have valid e-mail addresses.