Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-12-2010 | 06:10 AM
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From: A-320A
That is a part of the issue as well. Look at the timeline. They want to dump ALPA prior to section six? How smart is that?
11-12-2010 | 06:12 AM
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There is alot about ALPA that irks me, but not sure this is the best time to start changing representation.
11-12-2010 | 06:25 AM
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From: No to large RJs
Actually agree with you, personally I'm still in between going from ALPA to DALPA. Not sure how well this will work as we approach one of the biggest contracts of the past ten years for us.
There is alot about ALPA that irks me, but not sure this is the best time to start changing representation.
There is alot about ALPA that irks me, but not sure this is the best time to start changing representation.
Last edited by DAWGS; 11-12-2010 at 06:53 AM.
11-12-2010 | 06:33 AM
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Fear is why we are in the position we are in today. Too many important decisions have been made based on it. Ask yourself, is our current union fundamentally flawed and beyond repair? Are they representing you? If the answers to those questions are Yes and NO then it is better to fix the problem now. There is plenty of time to prepare for section 6. Please don't base your vote for independent on this hurry timeline ALPA is trying to create. They did the same thing with the joint contract. How did that work out for us? BK wages, weak scope, weak retirement. Don't fall into the same trap.
Thanks for saving me some typing. Well said!
If ALPA does not have an appropriate objective for Section 6 (i.e. restoration), then it is absolutely imperative that we dumped them ASAP.
11-12-2010 | 06:36 AM
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From: maddoggy dog
DAL88;
They do, but how would you feel if the guys that you are working with to raise the bottom of the industry while simultaneously recapture scope, bailed on your because they opted to form a independent union where they could literally forget about these pilots? Mad to say the least.
What would you expect them to do if you formed an independent union that went and called them inferior, not worth of your time, etc? I would expect them to do what any person or organization would do, throw it back in your face. Without DAL and UCAL pilots in the same broader organization working towards the same goal of tighter scope, while helping them obtain better contracts along the way, leaves the door open for a radical few to derail the whole process.
Leaving the problem the majors created is the most short sighted action we can take. Isolationsim rarely works. We may be able to get on a pulpit and talk only about our internal issues that effect just us, but the reality is that one of the biggest issues is what this action will create.
As a guy that wants restoration as a stated goal and scope recapture, you should realize that keeping these regionals under DALPA's and UALALPA's broader control is a very wise and strategic move. It allows you to fight a one front versus a multiple front attack on your profession.
They do, but how would you feel if the guys that you are working with to raise the bottom of the industry while simultaneously recapture scope, bailed on your because they opted to form a independent union where they could literally forget about these pilots? Mad to say the least.
What would you expect them to do if you formed an independent union that went and called them inferior, not worth of your time, etc? I would expect them to do what any person or organization would do, throw it back in your face. Without DAL and UCAL pilots in the same broader organization working towards the same goal of tighter scope, while helping them obtain better contracts along the way, leaves the door open for a radical few to derail the whole process.
Leaving the problem the majors created is the most short sighted action we can take. Isolationsim rarely works. We may be able to get on a pulpit and talk only about our internal issues that effect just us, but the reality is that one of the biggest issues is what this action will create.
As a guy that wants restoration as a stated goal and scope recapture, you should realize that keeping these regionals under DALPA's and UALALPA's broader control is a very wise and strategic move. It allows you to fight a one front versus a multiple front attack on your profession.
You said the regionals and the majors are better off both being in Alpa. You cite AA and Eagle. What about non union carriers like Skywest? The majors control Alpa regionals and non-union non-alpa regionals through strong scope, not because we are Alpa. Skywest is not in-house but are controlled through scope. It doesn't matter whether we are Alpa, DPA, or APA. We just need strong scope language.
Look at Southwest, are they Alpa? Nope, but they will NEVER give their flying away like we did. Republic is getting bigger because our scope language is weak. Alpa/Dalpa has sat back and watched embraer jets fly overweight with delta pax. This holding company crap is a joke.
Alpa/Dalpa is doing NOTHING on the west coast. Has anyone east of the mississippi seen what has happened to all the flying out there? Look at a route map out of LAX from 2008 and compare it to our current map. All our flying has been OUTSOURCED to Alaska/Horizon. Look at Alaska's route map. It looks like ours once did...hhhmmmm. How has this benefited our pilots? The shareholders may benefit but Buzzpat does not. He just wants to hold onto LAX. Dalpa is giving away his base through a JV.
11-12-2010 | 06:43 AM
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From: 767ER capt
Wouldn't it be great if there was a dedicated DPA vs ALPA thread...
11-12-2010 | 06:51 AM
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From: Kickin’ Back
Deadehad;
Have you read the comments from the republic guys. They are more than willing to do it for less than not just you, but any other regional just to get the flying. Guys outside of your scope of control cannot be held in check. Never. Within ALPA you see no group willingly undercutting each other. Corporations may try but the pilots are not. Look no further than Mesaba to see regional guys fighting back when their flying is being used as a threat to lower their contractual value.
RJET on the other hand (not F9 or YX guys) are willing to under cut their own (YX and F9) as well as majors and regionals all for shiny jets.
Have you read the comments from the republic guys. They are more than willing to do it for less than not just you, but any other regional just to get the flying. Guys outside of your scope of control cannot be held in check. Never. Within ALPA you see no group willingly undercutting each other. Corporations may try but the pilots are not. Look no further than Mesaba to see regional guys fighting back when their flying is being used as a threat to lower their contractual value.
RJET on the other hand (not F9 or YX guys) are willing to under cut their own (YX and F9) as well as majors and regionals all for shiny jets.
ACL,
Reading this statement makes me think that you think the regionals in ALPA are inside our (the Majors) scope of control and can be held in check. If so, how can this not be a DFR issue with ALPA National????
Denny
11-12-2010 | 07:04 AM
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11-12-2010 | 07:10 AM
Inventory survival kit ..
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From: Seeking no jacket required rotations
The debate is whether ALPA should be utilizing this as a tool. With the exception of the usual apologists, the posters on this thread think we should be taking this to the court of public opinion. Not saying this forum is a statistically correct cross section, but the argument has merit.
I'm just waiting for the videos about TSA pedophilia to start being published by disgruntled travellers. That will get ugly. I wonder how many lawsuits will be filed against the TSA in the Ninth Circuit.
11-12-2010 | 07:20 AM
Line Holder
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Those new routes to Heathrow from Miami and Boston, will those be on 767-400s or 767-300ER or 757 ERs?
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