Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-12-2010, 03:54 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Yeah, it's not nearly as satisfying as "destructive rhetoric", but it yields better results.
11-12-2010, 04:19 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
If DALPA said they no longer wanted to support ALPA National then I wonder what the support level of the funding class would be for DALPA? My bet is probably 95%?
Carry that thought one step further...
DALPA separates from ALPA and morphs into something called DPA. This would likely result in UCAL doing the same thing. Now all the major airlines are aligned with CAPA.
ALPA has to change because now it is roughly a regional only (exc Fedex) union. However, ALPA also can provide fee for service specialized business unit (aeromed, etc). CAPA is the voice of Majors, ALPA is the voice of regionals. The conflict of interest is gone almost overnight and now you have two power houses that have to work in the best interests of their constituents.
They also have to work together on areas of mutual interest.
How is this bad?
Last edited by scambo1; 11-12-2010 at 04:50 AM.
11-12-2010, 04:38 AM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by NWA320pilot
That has yet to be determined.......
11-12-2010, 05:05 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by dawgs
i can assure you, these alpa guys on apc will take all the credit when something changes. It will change, but what will cause the change? Alpa's style of engagement or 2 weeks of pilots getting absolutely tired of the harassment and bs. These other independent unions work behind the scenes as well and have been on top of this issue. They just use all the tools available to apply political pressure. That includes taking a strong public position. It is a tool which should be used more often.
11-12-2010, 05:06 AM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
What many fail to realize is that once you get the regional airlines out from underneath our financial as well as voting influence in the ALPA National structure you will have all of these regionals going after your flying. See RJET and Frontier for a warm up to how bad this will get. Look at AA and Eagle and see what happens when you have two different unions representing pilots under the same corporate structure.
There may be some ugly battles within ALPA, but at Bar states, they are dealt with "In house" and not at the table between three parties. Dump alpa and this is exactly what you will see.
There may be some ugly battles within ALPA, but at Bar states, they are dealt with "In house" and not at the table between three parties. Dump alpa and this is exactly what you will see.
11-12-2010, 05:09 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
What many fail to realize is that once you get the regional airlines out from underneath our financial as well as voting influence in the ALPA National structure you will have all of these regionals going after your flying. See RJET and Frontier for a warm up to how bad this will get. Look at AA and Eagle and see what happens when you have two different unions representing pilots under the same corporate structure.
There may be some ugly battles within ALPA, but at Bar states, they are dealt with "In house" and not at the table between three parties. Dump alpa and this is exactly what you will see.
There may be some ugly battles within ALPA, but at Bar states, they are dealt with "In house" and not at the table between three parties. Dump alpa and this is exactly what you will see.
Who owns scope?
The RJET camel nose is under the tent, ALPA does nothing.
11-12-2010, 05:12 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
What many fail to realize is that once you get the regional airlines out from underneath our financial as well as voting influence in the ALPA National structure you will have all of these regionals going after your flying. See RJET and Frontier for a warm up to how bad this will get. Look at AA and Eagle and see what happens when you have two different unions representing pilots under the same corporate structure.
There may be some ugly battles within ALPA, but at Bar states, they are dealt with "In house" and not at the table between three parties. Dump alpa and this is exactly what you will see.
There may be some ugly battles within ALPA, but at Bar states, they are dealt with "In house" and not at the table between three parties. Dump alpa and this is exactly what you will see.
11-12-2010, 05:28 AM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
DAL88;
They do, but how would you feel if the guys that you are working with to raise the bottom of the industry while simultaneously recapture scope, bailed on your because they opted to form a independent union where they could literally forget about these pilots? Mad to say the least.
What would you expect them to do if you formed an independent union that went and called them inferior, not worth of your time, etc? I would expect them to do what any person or organization would do, throw it back in your face. Without DAL and UCAL pilots in the same broader organization working towards the same goal of tighter scope, while helping them obtain better contracts along the way, leaves the door open for a radical few to derail the whole process.
Leaving the problem the majors created is the most short sighted action we can take. Isolationsim rarely works. We may be able to get on a pulpit and talk only about our internal issues that effect just us, but the reality is that one of the biggest issues is what this action will create.
As a guy that wants restoration as a stated goal and scope recapture, you should realize that keeping these regionals under DALPA's and UALALPA's broader control is a very wise and strategic move. It allows you to fight a one front versus a multiple front attack on your profession.
They do, but how would you feel if the guys that you are working with to raise the bottom of the industry while simultaneously recapture scope, bailed on your because they opted to form a independent union where they could literally forget about these pilots? Mad to say the least.
What would you expect them to do if you formed an independent union that went and called them inferior, not worth of your time, etc? I would expect them to do what any person or organization would do, throw it back in your face. Without DAL and UCAL pilots in the same broader organization working towards the same goal of tighter scope, while helping them obtain better contracts along the way, leaves the door open for a radical few to derail the whole process.
Leaving the problem the majors created is the most short sighted action we can take. Isolationsim rarely works. We may be able to get on a pulpit and talk only about our internal issues that effect just us, but the reality is that one of the biggest issues is what this action will create.
As a guy that wants restoration as a stated goal and scope recapture, you should realize that keeping these regionals under DALPA's and UALALPA's broader control is a very wise and strategic move. It allows you to fight a one front versus a multiple front attack on your profession.
11-12-2010, 05:29 AM
Happy to be here
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Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Even better they are not mutually exclusive DAL88. Stronger scope aligned with unity.
11-12-2010, 05:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
What many fail to realize is that once you get the regional airlines out from underneath our financial as well as voting influence in the ALPA National structure you will have all of these regionals going after your flying. See RJET and Frontier for a warm up to how bad this will get. Look at AA and Eagle and see what happens when you have two different unions representing pilots under the same corporate structure.
There may be some ugly battles within ALPA, but at Bar states, they are dealt with "In house" and not at the table between three parties. Dump alpa and this is exactly what you will see.
There may be some ugly battles within ALPA, but at Bar states, they are dealt with "In house" and not at the table between three parties. Dump alpa and this is exactly what you will see.
The problem as I see it is that somewhere along the line ALPA put it's growth prospects, as an organization, ahead of the needs of it members. ALPA decided to grow for that sake of growing while disregarding the ramifications of representing competitive pilot groups.
Even to this day, ALPA will happily represent a group that continually approves sub-par, industry-lowering contracts, at the expense of under-cutting a struggling pilot group.
ALPA takes 2% from each of its' members and then tells said members that if they want a industry-leading contract they are going to have to fight for it. So that then bears the question...
Why am I paying someone to do a job that they in turn advocate I do myself, while supporting a competing group that is willing to do my job for less???
The way I see it ACL, what you speak of above has ALWAYS been the problem with ALPA as an organization. Sooner or later the person trying to be everybody's friend will indefinitely become everybody's enemy.
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