It would. Maybe I could start one. I'm trying to come up with a catchy title. Would "Delta Pilots Association" work, or is that a little too lame?

 

An interesting set of arguments. Public opinion is a very powerful tool indeed, but public opinion, when it comes to airlines or pilots is rather... erratic. I don't think I want to try anything in a court that already prejudges we're overpaid whiners, and charging for services is an outrage.

I'm not saying that I find Prater's response to be adequate, or that ALPA doesn't need to find a better voice and a better manner of relating to the pilots, but I also don't think the public usually serves us well. The public is usually loyal only to their wallet, and views pilots in general with the same enthusiasm that you and I look at pickpockets and beggars in Istanbul. This only changes when you're their pilot, in which case, for a brief few minutes you hold their life in your hands, and they really, really like you. Then they leave the airplane, to complaint about the service, and you're an overpaid ********* again...

So, stronger message... sure, but court of public opinion... no thanks.

The public needs to be treated to dignity, but we also don't need to let more underwear "surprises" through. How the public is handled (no pun intended) is therefore a matter for the public, and how we are handled is a different issue. Which, by the way, is the whole point: logic demands that we get treated differently, for the reasons we already know.

 

Both routes are 767-300ERs. Interesting BOS-LHR will be two flights a day.

 

Hate to tell you this but that's happening now......

 

Disclaimer: Hey T... I am going to use this for what it is obviously intended.

F. U. D.

AcL: I am sure they are proud on the 6th floor. Continue trying and keep that dream alive.

 

Currently the do not tie though their scope the creators of the code to their flying. DAL or UAL et al have though successive agreements allowed these cutouts. They do not have the right to expand or contract that flying, only the person with exclusivity does. That would be us.

My point is what would preclude them from going and talking to our management team with DPA? Our exclusivity agreement, but they as well as the company would know that they would sign an agreement for this flying, they would fly it and we would need to take them to court.

As this progressed over the weeks and years though litigation and the courts, more flying would be outsource further weakening our bargning position. We may win the case eventually, but not after the damage has been done.

By keeping ourselves within the same union as the majority of these airlines, we keep a detente. They know that they would not get the funding from us or the airlines unless they left ALPA. What we are doing now is working to bring their contracts up, and at the same time restore these cutouts. (See UAL-CAL) If were were trying the same thing in an independent these guys would not be rallying behind us because there would be no benefit to them, they would be fighting us at the same time we are fighting the company, the RAA and the ATA. There is no way that DPA or any other independent would have the resources to win that battle without some major casualties.

Currently these regionals within ALPA know not to go against the grain. RJET is trying with getting on with the Star alliance, but the power of ALPA within the star alliance, and at UAL-CAL is making these guys think twice about it. Add the regionals of ALPA to the mix and they may play ball.

WRT, SKW with them the airlines are smart enough not to mess with that too much. It allows them to whipsaw the other WO regionals they own, and if they are not careful SKW will become ALPA. I do agree that we need to make it valuable for them to become ALPA and to tighten up scope. The best results will come from doing this within ALPA.

 

Do not mistake them fighting among each other for the outsourced flying for going after yours. There is a big difference. They are merely fighting for the scraps that are left, not for your 100 seat flying.

 

ACL,

I respect a lot of what you say/post. But the truth is the regional pilots would love our flying. I know regional guys post on here for us to take back the flying but what they really mean is take back the flying as long as I get a job at the majors, big difference. I did the regional gig for 10 years and have many friends who are still there so I know what is meant by take it back.

 

What good does outsourcing flying to a regional really do for you?

 

Does that mean we are getting 6 day trips back you think?