80ktsClamp

This was exactly what Bastian told the captain I was flying with when he challenged Ed on why the execs kept their pensions and such while the rest got nuked. "Well, we had contracts that had to be honored."

Carl Spackler

The other MISERABLE failure was to accept the first offer in BK. The NWA flight attendants refused the first 3 BK contracts until they got one they thought they could barely live with. The NWA flight attendants were willing to risk having a contract imposed on them, and live with it until the company emerged from BK. At which time their imposed contract immediately expired. They were willing to take that risk. Ultimately, the company was not and upped the ante 3 additional times to entice the FA's to sign a contract that was not imposed.

Hawaiin Airlines pilots also turned down their TA in BK. They were not scared of living under an imposed contract for the same reason as our FA's. Hawaiin pilots got significant increases in all areas in their second TA...which they ultimately signed.

Both NWA and DAL pilots...signed the very first offer that came down from management and the judge. No snapbacks, no nothing. Just signed it.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Dang it Buzz...CUT THAT OUT!!

Carl

Jack Bauer

In an attempt to cut costs this is what you will take your next checkride in:

YouTube - simulate CAR RACE

Nosmo King

I believe pre-BK at NWA, if you were removed from your AWARDED trip as a blockholder due to training, you were

1. Reasonably Available
2. Only required to be available for your original trip in case the instructor or student got sick.

tsquare

Wasn't it Coke? But for sure in a clean glass

Doug Masters

You think Carl is the type that would put doo doo in the capsule?

satchip

No, the single reason why why our profession is not what it used to be is the Law of Supply and Demand. There are a lot more of us than there used to be, it is much easier to gain the skills required than it used to be, the government has lowered the barriers to entry in the marketplace (both labor and the general marketplace) to ridiculous levels, and there are few pilots required at the major carriers (fewer jets, no three man cockpits, work rules).

The elected representatives during the pre bankruptcy days may have made mistakes. Hindsight is always 20/20. Scambo is right, Ch 11 was unavoidable, probably the plan all along after C2K. Had they dug their heels in and not made any concessions, would the result be as you predicted? Or could it have been worse? Would the judge have gutted the contract even further than what was agreed to? Who knows?

One thing is for sure, the past is the past. To constantly focus on what was lost and what used to be can cloud one's vision of the future. Unless the anti DALPA crowd have a plan to change the laws of economics, I don't see their plan having any positive effect on our future.

We face huge pressures on our profession in the near future. Besides the normal Supply and Demand curve there are technological pressures, political, structural pressures (I'm talking Skyteam here). We need union leaders who have their eyes on the future, not on the past. Like Bar touts, unity is our spinach. Without it we will be crushed.

slowplay

I don't know where he's getting this, but it's wrong about management contracts and pensions.

I believe there's only one manager left at Delta that had an individual contract during the bankruptcy. That's the VP of Tech Ops. He got taken to court just like we did. A couple of the Mullin managers fought in court to preserve their separation benefits (Burns in particular). They didn't keep their pre-bankruptcy package. Nobody in management currently has an individual contract. Their (top 5) compensation package is spelled out in the annual report

I can't find my list, but I think there's only 3 of 35 SERP recipients left on property. One of them left under GG and was asked to come back after a couple years separation by RA. Another was an attorney who was the bottom recipient (I think it was $50K). The SERPents are the ones I particularly loathe.

There was no separate management pension plan at Delta. Their pension was part of the non-contract plan and has been hard frozen. Their non-qualified plan was rejected (terminated) by the bankruptcy court.

There's lots of reasons to be pi$$ed at Mullin, Reid, Burns, et. al. What your fellow pilot reported to you above isn't one of them, as the facts don't support what he heard.

DAL4EVER

Carl,

With all due respect, while I can't comment on the Hawaiian Airline's situation or NWA's financial position in BK, DAL came dangerously close, and by that I recall it was measured in days not weeks or months of running out of operating cash and liquidating. The company was frightened of the pilots back then and the union had the inside knowledge of the precarious financial position of the company. We were at the abyss, stared at it, and it stared back at us.

I hate that we lost the pensions and others kept theirs. I hate that we had to take a second round of paycuts. But neither you, nor I, were at the table when this was going down. But those that I knew who were at the table painted a very, very bleak picture of what could have happened with certain creditors had we just "voted down" the TA to see what we could have gotten better. There may not have been enough time to see what was behind door number 2.