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Where is the AE bid???
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Originally Posted by TheManager
(Post 926287)
SPOT ON!^^^^
DPA would be quickly swept into the dust bin of history if this and a few other basic changes were made. 1. True Bottom to top representation. 2. Complete transparency. FPL every month. Quarterly publishing of budget and accounts receivable and payable. (to include trips and incidentals at The Diplomate) ;) 3. Effective communications commitee and tools. Not tools on the communications committee. Those are my top three in addition to scope stance. Feel free to add. Yes, it would and when that memo or other medium comes out I sure it will. The fact is that at least 70% of us think scope is important even if we do not understand it. Of that 70% 50% probably understand it enough to know the true ramifications of it. |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 926230)
When 50% + 1 are angry enough.. they will REALLY pay attention.. until then... your guess is as good as my wife's....
Spot on. This is why current effort will probably not succeed. They went about it the wrong way. You need some heavy hitters to draw the crowd in if you aren't working a crisis. Nu |
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg
(Post 926355)
Where is the AE bid???
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 926354)
I am going to make this really easy for you. Call each of your reps and ask them what they would do if the company came to them with a 30,40,50,60,70,80,% etc pay raise in exchange for scope relief. If they say they are open to it, talk to them, if they tell you, you do not understand, make sure you have pilots in there that do. It cannot get simpler than that. That is part of the election process.
I will also repeat once again, I do not see one rep going for this. If there are a few, it will not be the majority no matter what pay carrot is waved. Maybe the company will try, and maybe the union will have the reps vote it down, but I just do not see this coming to a pilot vote. If by some chance it does, and we vote "yes" for it, we get what is coming to us. At best I see 30% voting for anything that give up scope, and I really do not even see it being that high. The only issue we have is senior pilots can sell our farm because once they retire they have no attachment to it. Other than that, it will hurt way to much to everyone's career. This whole "The company is offering a huge payraise for 100 seat scope is so stupid you wonder how it gets spread and started. If anyone thought about it even a little bit they would realize the company is not going to offer and never has offered a large raise for 100 seat scope. If they got a 100 seat relief they gain the difference in revenue from a current 76 seat jet. You have to figure how much the additional profit they might generate on the 24 more seats. I suspect the verybest case might be 50 million a year yet we see rumor after rumor that the company is offering us 200 to 600 million a year in pay raises in exchange. You also have to look at the difference in revenue from the company choosing to operate the jet at the mainline. If you follow the convention wisdom of this board the mainline can fly the jet for the same cost as DCI. Why would the company offer 1 penny in that case. I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 926415)
This whole "The company is offering a huge payraise for 100 seat scope is so stupid you wonder how it gets spread and started. If anyone thought about it even a little bit they would realize the company is not going to offer and never has offered a large raise for 100 seat scope.
If they got a 100 seat relief they gain the difference in revenue from a current 76 seat jet. You have to figure how much the additional profit they might generate on the 24 more seats. I suspect the verybest case might be 50 million a year yet we see rumor after rumor that the company is offering us 200 to 600 million a year in pay raises in exchange. You also have to look at the difference in revenue from the company choosing to operate the jet at the mainline. If you follow the convention wisdom of this board the mainline can fly the jet for the same cost as DCI. Why would the company offer 1 penny in that case. I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 926415)
This whole "The company is offering a huge payraise for 100 seat scope is so stupid you wonder how it gets spread and started. If anyone thought about it even a little bit they would realize the company is not going to offer and never has offered a large raise for 100 seat scope. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline.
Your numbers don't work because payraises can be taken away but scope never comes back. |
"Throw away" or "trade away" items (sometimes truly absurd ones), are very common in contract opening offers. Each side must demonstrate "good faith bargaining", i.e. movement toward a settlement, so they load their ship with plenty of jettisonable stores. Sometimes they will anonymously float out an idea to see what kind of fire it draws, and if it gets clobbered, deny all knowledge of it.
The real danger is not that pilots will yield to an outrageous demand, but that they will give up something of real value to make it go away. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 926415)
]
I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline. I think they'll open for the regionals to fly it, and in the end I think we'll fly it, but they'll try to extract a lot of negotiating capital from us to make that happen. |
Originally Posted by pineapple guy
(Post 926432)
i disagree. I think this next contract will be the contract in which the 100 seat jet comes into existence. With the phase out of the dc9's and dal's phase out of b737-200s a few years ago, there's a gaping hole in the system with nothing between 76 seats and 125(?) of the a319. That's a huge spread, that needs to be filled, imo.
I think they'll open for the regionals to fly it, and in the end i think we'll fly it, but they'll try to extract a lot of negotiating capital from us to make that happen. Since "everything has a cost" the real question from management will be "what are you willing to give up" for us to keep something we already have. |
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