|
Originally Posted by newKnow
(Post 974376)
...
2.) that we never should have voted in these crappy contracts that allowed the outsourcing of our jobs, & 3.) that we should have gone on strike 10-12 years ago to stop it, I'm with him... Why I voted NO on C2K (short version): Scope and Scheduling concessions. In exchange, huge pay increases, including retro pay were the obvious selling points. I, personally, believe that the retro pay became a deal breaker. From my recollection, the MEC and Negotiating Committee, with help from ALPA National (i.e. Seth Rosen roadshows, etc.) warned that if we rejected the TA, we would lose everything and that a very poor contract would certainly be imposed on us. Personally, I found it unlikely that the TA, already agreed to by our negotiators, would be totally gutted/thrown out in favor of a grossly inferior contract – as our ALPA leadership claimed as punishment (but that is my opinion). I felt, worst case, that the already-agreed-to "TA" would be imposed – perhaps, minus the retro pay. The threats/fears were enough to affirm C2K, as they usually are, without actually striking. While the short term loss of retro pay would have been regrettable, I was more than willing to forfeit this money to prevent the long term scope and scheduling concessions. The retro pay should have been a non-issue if pilots were truly prepared financially for a long term strike (I was ready for 6 months, in cash). Weighing six months of strike pay vs. loss of retro pay was a no-brainer (my retro paycheck was about 20k: 2 months of regular pay). Despite the tremendous activity of the Strike Preparedness Committee – I do not believe the majority of DAL pilots, who voted overwhelmingly for a strike vote – were truly ready to see it through. |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 974448)
As for MEMRAT, the simple fact is that what our Chairman states is correct, Our pilots want pay no matter what.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 974273)
...the will has to come from this group with a "No" vote if or when it is offered to our pilots in a MEMRAT vote.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 974448)
I just hope that when push comes to shove their direction is not, "Pay at the cost of Scope." The MEC's position is that of the majority here. Many may not like that, and that is understandable.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 974488)
The final straw for me regarding ALPA's handling of Comair and the RJDC was this:
After JC Lawson and the Comair MEC committed their atrocity and refused to hire furloughed pilots, what did ALPA do? They made JC Lawson an Executive Vice President. That made the ALPA National conflict of interest crystal clear. Carl |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 974554)
JC Lawson being a jack horse is totally separate from taking our flying against our will. No one argues that that was totally below the belt, and unacceptable. Yes, Comair is totally different, and their venom is inexcusable. It will never be forgotten, whereas ASA did the opposite, and correct thing.
The reality is ALPA does not hire pilots, but maybe it should. :eek: They did not take our furloughed guys, but the reality is that there are plenty of groups that do not take other furloughed pilots first. MEH comes to mind, IPA's furloughed UPS pilots, APA's AMR and TWA pilots, etc. This is not a ALPA exclusive issue. I am not stating we should not do better, but if you are going to throw the mud, throw it at all the players not just one. My opinion is ALPA should help out fellow ALPA pilots who lose their jobs, we agree on that. It is something that all pilot unions have failed at. Job fairs in a horrible market do nothing but put lipstick on a pig. When MEH was furloughing their pilots DAL, and CAL, UPS, FDX, UAL(would have been furloughed), f9, etc were hiring. No one had a preferential interviews policy set up.
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 974488)
The final straw for me regarding ALPA's handling of Comair and the RJDC was this:
After JC Lawson and the Comair MEC committed their atrocity and refused to hire furloughed pilots, what did ALPA do? They made JC Lawson an Executive Vice President. That made the ALPA National conflict of interest crystal clear. Carl |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 974557)
Scope sales start and end with each MEC. I have not fear that our current MEC Council will take any TA and send it back that sells small jet scope. They have no appetite for it.
Carl |
Originally Posted by FlighTimeBarbie
(Post 974592)
From my recollection, the MEC and Negotiating Committee, with help from ALPA National (i.e. Seth Rosen roadshows, etc.) warned that if we rejected the TA, we would lose everything and that a very poor contract would certainly be imposed on us
This is why it is imperative for the LEC reps to be fully empowered (by us) to send back any TA before it ever gets to a vote if it does not meet our clearly expressed desires. ALPA and management always say: "Hey...let it go out for a vote and let's see what happens. Don't block your own members from exercising their democratic rights." The LEC reps and the members need to understand this old tired trick. We cannot let the ALPA experts do management's bidding with their scare tactics. Thanks for this excellent post. Carl |
In pad NYC for early show tomorrow. FA pad mate just walked in, same deal, commuted from TPA. She said she had a wonderful flight on her airline Shuttle. The flight was operated by Shuttle for Delta. Gee, it seems that was our flying. I'll miss those flights, whats next?
|
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 974488)
After JC Lawson and the Comair MEC committed their atrocity and refused to hire furloughed pilots, what did ALPA do? They made JC Lawson an Executive Vice President.
One more thing - JC doesn't hire pilots, Comair does. And Comair does what Delta says, not JC. Comair does not take orders from JC. The seniority resignation rule was Comair's, not ALPAs. I agree JC's letter makes him sound like a real D-Bag, but I fail to see how he had anything to do with Delta's decision to not place their furloughed pilots at Comair. But what do I know? I'm just a stupid regional FO stuck at a dead airline. |
Its the weekend. Do you know where Rebecca is?
|
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 974596)
I responded to you by lamenting that it is indeed legal for our MEC to give scope away via an LOA before Section 6 even begins. What do you do? You completely ignore what I wrote. I understand why, because you unwittingly showed the obvious about our union's ability to do this without MEMRAT. But then to somehow conflate the issue of MEMRAT with an alleged opinion of our pilot group that we only care about pay, is absolutely incoherent. So you know the MEC's position on that eh? ... you little dot connector you. Please post any evidence of that opinion. Perhaps some Wilson polling data? Oops can't use that...because 50% of their current questions deal with the DPA. Look forward to your evidence. Carl As for Wilson Polling, we both know I am not talking about what is being asked right now, but the decision trees of previous section sixes, when it comes down to X or more of X with less of Y. As for present day, our reps are voted in by us the pilots want what we as a majority want, see the pooling, read and responds to all of the communication from their pilots and though the process vote the way the pilots want, not they way you think they are cohered in to voting. I do not see this MEC body given away scope, but the hard fact is that they will follow the will of the pilots, no matter what that is. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:33 AM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands