Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-12-2011, 07:45 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Luftwaffe
Have you shared that specific information regarding “the waste and abuse that continually gets a pass throughout the association” with your Delta pilot representatives??? The “same cadre of guys that are always in the limelight at alpa” are Delta pilots willing to do the work that you are not, because you would rather fly airplanes. It would be nice if everyone could just fly airplanes and no one had to do the work, but that certainly is not the case. Sometimes the work has to be done even when it isn’t fun. Believe it or not, Delta pilots are your union and your representatives. ALPA Int’l is a resource that Delta pilots use. There is NO cushy gig, and perhaps you would know that if you ever had volunteered for something. The fact is, it is all about volunteering, whether it’s to represent, work on a committee, or take your personal extra time to show up to a meeting. That won’t change even if you prefer to make the change to another union that has no resources.
04-12-2011, 07:45 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: MD-88/90 Captain
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by Sink r8
I see you and T2 have something in common: you both prefer to paint with broad brushes. Many ALPA volunteers are temporary volunteers, many are life-long technocrats that play a very useful role, and some are leeches. The act of volunteerism, noble as it is, does not consider motive. Some "volunteer" to support self-interest.
This is why an active, involved membership is key: it's all in the adult supervision. This is also why I wouldn't support DPA: there is no reason to think this pilot group, which is fairly apathetic now, would supervise DPA any better than it suppervises ALPA. And if the group that wants to promote DPA gets serious enough, then one would think it would translate into presence at local meetings, to promote whatever values they want to promote. IOW, if they got active enough to push a DPA through, they would be active enough to clean up whatever needs cleaning up in the union, and a DPA would not be needed.
This is why an active, involved membership is key: it's all in the adult supervision. This is also why I wouldn't support DPA: there is no reason to think this pilot group, which is fairly apathetic now, would supervise DPA any better than it suppervises ALPA. And if the group that wants to promote DPA gets serious enough, then one would think it would translate into presence at local meetings, to promote whatever values they want to promote. IOW, if they got active enough to push a DPA through, they would be active enough to clean up whatever needs cleaning up in the union, and a DPA would not be needed.
04-12-2011, 07:49 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Enemyofthestate
04-12-2011, 07:50 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Sink r8
: there is no reason to think this pilot group, which is fairly apathetic now, would supervise DPA any better than it suppervises ALPA.
So where do we go from here?
04-12-2011, 07:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by Enemyofthestate
And there are also many pilots who have raised their hands to do the work and been ignored because they have ideas that stray from the status quo.
There are also many good volunteers that have been run off after the merger for the same reason. The same seems to be occurring in Herndon now as well. Of course a system where the Chairman get's to hand out committee positions and flight pay loss as reward for servitude and compliance creates a self-perpetuating system that is not open to new ideas or honest debate. I find it a little odd most of those run off were former NWA
As to a cushy job, no, however the hard work that is done by volunteers does not warrant "bonus" pay opportunities, all while not flying and having weekends and holidays off, not open to line pilots with the same seniority.
There are also many good volunteers that have been run off after the merger for the same reason. The same seems to be occurring in Herndon now as well. Of course a system where the Chairman get's to hand out committee positions and flight pay loss as reward for servitude and compliance creates a self-perpetuating system that is not open to new ideas or honest debate. I find it a little odd most of those run off were former NWA
As to a cushy job, no, however the hard work that is done by volunteers does not warrant "bonus" pay opportunities, all while not flying and having weekends and holidays off, not open to line pilots with the same seniority.
As a line pilot, I have little or no awareness about what's happening in Herndon. I assume this is a reference to Moak. I don't doubt that Moak eventually got to a point where he controlled committe appoitments closely. In fact, the charge against his predecessor was that he stacked committees with cronies, and would not answer to the MEC, that brought him to power. Now I'm being told the new guy answers better to the MEC, and maybe Moak didn't.
You know what I think? They all like to stack committees with cronies, and they'll all get there, given enough time. Much of what I see is a self-perpetuating system, and the only fights I can discern are those between individual factions to determine who will get to ride. I'm not moved very much when I read passionate pleas for putting better people, or creating redundant MEC structures, or perpetuating the paranoid World of Roberts that (I'm told) you lived under. I know it's a popular view to say that you had delightful, open, lively debates that were the hallmark of democracy. I've heard many wax poetic about what a quaint era that was, but when you speak to people in private, it sounds like it was the same ugly kind of knife-fight you see in jail documentaries.
So I couldn't care less about the color of the people getting botted off, because I think this whole thing rides on pilot participation. If the pilots don't show up at meetings, we're [****]'ed.
04-12-2011, 07:54 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by tsquare
That is an excellent point.
So where do we go from here?
So where do we go from here?
I know we've had this debate already, and you think ALPA is stalling WRT labor laws and webcasting, but it sort of makes sense to me we shouldn't have meetings recorded and available to the company.
04-12-2011, 07:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by tsquare
As a south guy, I find this exceptionally insulting. Please stop
Insulting... perhaps - True... YES.
A stronger union may require adding a little more red, the cobra is known to have very a mean bite when provoked.
04-12-2011, 08:05 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by whaledriver1
Insulting... perhaps - True... YES.
A stronger union may require adding a little more red, the cobra is known to have very a mean bite when provoked.
A stronger union may require adding a little more red, the cobra is known to have very a mean bite when provoked.
04-12-2011, 08:09 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Sink r8
Why, that's easy, we start going to... the LEC meetings.
I know we've had this debate already, and you think ALPA is stalling WRT labor laws and webcasting, but it sort of makes sense to me we shouldn't have meetings recorded and available to the company.
I know we've had this debate already, and you think ALPA is stalling WRT labor laws and webcasting, but it sort of makes sense to me we shouldn't have meetings recorded and available to the company.
04-12-2011, 08:11 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by JobHopper
Hadn't heard that. I guess as long as they don't paint "Delta" on the side of any Airbuses life is good.
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