Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1020701)

Lets see... fdx has a pension- we dont (sure... some have a frozen one...), wn has less revenue per block hour yet pays their pilots up to 3 times as much per seat block hour (with that big of a discrepancy their cost structure doesnt matter anymore)... and so on... Im home visiting my parents, but when I see excrement like that thrown out there by our higher ups, I cant ignore it. Typos thanks to the ipad...


Why aren't you making these arguments as well? That is the biggest concern.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1020684)

Probably not. I would say two years or so. When we applied for ATI with V Australia, we included New Zealand. I suspect we could find the loads for thrice weekly service from the US. From ATL would be great, but it will probably be LA. ( I would not see too many flights added to LAX until the terminal remodel is done, and that should take a year)

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1020685)

FDX is in a different, rational industry, one that only has two real domestic competitors in the whole market. Even though fNWA had a freight division they never included the overnight express carriers in their contract comparison. I am told they will be in ours.

WN is in the same industry with a different business model. They will be included in the comparison.

Note that the companies that you mentioned are 2 of the 3 more highly paid pilot groups than Delta (UPS is the third). Is there anything else common in those groups other than higher pilot pay?;)

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1020685)

What happened? You haven't been doing a top notch job since you've been here?:p



FDX is in a different, rational industry, one that only has two real domestic competitors in the whole market. Even though fNWA had a freight division they never included the overnight express carriers in their contract comparison. I am told they will be in ours.

WN is in the same industry with a different business model. They will be included in the comparison.

Note that the companies that you mentioned are 2 of the 3 more highly paid pilot groups than Delta (UPS is the third). Is there anything else common in those groups other than higher pilot pay?;)

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1020716)

Check... this was just too easy:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1020717)

Don't go postin' no grandmother pics. :eek:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1020698)

The straw man arguement that FedEx and UPS are so different as to warrant exclusion from our compeitive peer group is completely self refuting. If all the money flying airplanes is truly into cargo as the arguement for competitive peer excusion is made, then why are those very same managers making that arguement the same ones saying there is no money in cargo? And then tripping all over themselves to sign massive postal contracts as fast as they can precicely because of how lucritive it is?

We have difficulty with payloads and performance on several long haul routes due to the tons of cargo we load, and some of those routes have nothing to do with short runways or high terrain (like ATH when we were carrying so much yogurt and/or marble we were load limited).

So if all the money is in cargo and we therefore can't throw those rates in for comparison, then why are we not going into cargo? If there's no money in cargo, how can they afford those rates?

Bottom line, they fly the same equipment in the same airspace and hire from the same talent pool of pilots as we do, and they are global powerhouses like we are. So it is pure fantasy to think they are somehow so seperate that they are irrelevant.

And absolutely ROFL @ anyone who claims SWA isn't not only a competitive peer but also an absolute floor for compensation as they are 100% relevant.