Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1020701)

Why aren't you making these arguments as well? That is the biggest concern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1020708)

Who said I wasn't?

I say you're not. Many others also agree you're not. You are but one of the shameful ALPA reps/insiders that make the case so hard for management. You shame the other reps who ARE fighting for us, and you shame yourself.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1020725)

That is what those poor lassies have to do to put food on the table. You know they do work for O'Leary. He pays em horribly.

Oh btw their pilots are some of the worst paid in europe and they still make more than our guys. :eek: Last figure I was given was over 200K in US dollars a year.

I've heard that as well. And they are considered the scum sucking bottom feeders of the European airlines.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by FedElta (Post 1020728)

Hey Scambo,

Until now I have ageed with the majority of your well thought out posts. However, I believe this was a really cheap body shot directed at some of my fallen brothers.

Apologies if I misunderstood your post.

BG

Fed;

Thanks for the kind word, I dont know how well thought out they are. No body shot intended and I can see how you would take it that way, I'll fix my post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1020715)

Yes! In the ones you mention only one is in alpa. Do I get a cookie.

Another similarity is they employ pilots to fly airplanes safely. Sometimes with less clothes on than underpaid Delta pilots.

This bump is for fedelta

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1020715)

Yes! In the ones you mention only one is in alpa. Do I get a cookie.

Another similarity is they employ pilots to fly airplanes safely. Sometimes with less clothes on than underpaid Delta pilots.

Bingo, Scambo!!:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1020739)

I guess we should stop carrying all the cargo we do. Bummer. Want me to tell our cargo people that there's no money in it, or do you want to relay the message?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1020701)

Why aren't you making these arguments as well? That is the biggest concern.

Because making fact based emotional arguments ( such as I'm doing the same job) hasn't worked in a long time. If they did Lloyd Hill and APA would be sitting on a 52% payraise right now and we'd pattern off of them. If they did, there wouldn't be such huge disparities in pay for pilots in the same aircraft and industry. There wouldn't be a $70 per hour difference betweek FedEx and Atlas heavy drivers. There wouldn't be a $40/hr difference between USAirways and Delta A320 pilots. Even in your personal history you joined 9E whose contract was substantially beneath CMR and ASA while you guys flew the same airplane. Why was that?

All the points you raise are fact. Look at the recent history of contract negotiations. Tell me what arguments worked and which ones didn't. I'm looking for the winning argument, not the populist and feel good ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1020779)

It's a great ancillary business. Tell me again how much those 9 dedicated freighters lost us in 2008 before the shutdown?

Point is, FedEx and UPS have created a duopoly in their overnight package delivery business. They ran ABX, DHL, and the USPS into insignficant market share. They are both extremely profitable and are paying some of the highest wage rates in the US piloting business. Their main deck freighter counterparts (Atlas, Kalitta, et. al.) pay less than us on like aircraft. APC shows Atlas at $176 per hour for a 747. Astar and ABX only have a few pilots left after massive furloughs.

Because making fact based emotional arguments ( such as I'm doing the same job) hasn't worked in a long time. If they did Lloyd Hill and APA would be sitting on a 52% payraise right now and we'd pattern off of them. If they did, there wouldn't be such huge disparities in pay for pilots in the same aircraft and industry. There wouldn't be a $70 per hour difference betweek FedEx and Atlas heavy drivers. There wouldn't be a $40/hr difference between USAirways and Delta A320 pilots. Even in your personal history you joined 9E whose contract was substantially beneath CMR and ASA while you guys flew the same airplane. Why was that?

All the points you raise are fact. Look at the recent history of contract negotiations. Tell me what arguments worked and which ones didn't. I'm looking for the winning argument, not the populist and feel good ones.

Slow;

There is more to it than you are stating. How many 747-800s is Atlas buying? Is the fact that they are hiring pilots #s equal to 25% of their list this year of any relevance? How long does it take to upgrade to 747A at atlas now and historically (time value of money)? What was their profit sharing check (rumor is $35k on average)?

I think you might be a deadzoner and the contract affects you as well, but, and this is an honestly big but, it is my opinion that you have been spinning the news for so long that you just cant give a straight from your heart answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1020779)

Slow,

I don't like the defeatist attitude. First of all, we need an agent to represent us, and to go to bat for us. That means the agent will play us up, not look around and try to compare us to mediocre peers that really aren't our peers. That agent would say we are the star, and should be paid accordingly.

Who are our peers? No USair or American, both floundering majors with bad business plans. We are a Worldwide carrier, with a large domestic operation as well. That means our peers are Worldwide airlines, like our JV partners Air France and KLM, along with our biggest competitor in the domesitc arena, which will be Southwest after they gobble up Airtran. The Air France and KLM guys are paid very well, and are treated well by their airlines. Same with Southwest, and now the Airtran guys, who we have been compared to in the past, will share the Southwest pay and benefits. Those three airlines are really our peers, and they are the ones DALPA should compare us to.

If ALPA doesn't want to stand up for us, let's go for the DPA. If Dalpa can't act like a Jerry Maguire type agent, fighting all the way for what WE want, then it's time to move on, even if it delays our eventual agreement. And we are worth a lot more than 17% over 4 years (with 2 or 3 more for negotiations) for our next contract. Don't get me started.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1020779)

When you can be awarded whale captain on your fourth year of longevity at DL, all of the above is valid.

Until then, it's irrelevant.

Lack of outsourcing has lead to proportional growth at those companies that some American passenger carriers will never see again.