Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Closed Thread Subscribe

Page 7083 of 20173

7083

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

07-13-2011, 01:13 PM

#70821

shiznit

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2009

Position: right for a long, long time

Posts: 2,642

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

You keep missing the point. Many of the pilot brotherhood have tried what you suggest. The infrastructure we call ALPA has been given opportunities to right the ship many times and yet they continue down a path the top leadership chooses contrary to what Delta Airline pilots are asking for. Truly, that ship has sailed. Hell, right now ALPA could come out with a mission statement on scope and pay, with the aim of returning them to their proper place. They choose not to. Instead they fill their magazine with shameless self promotion referencing victories of laser light reductions and crew pass year 7 "we are getting closer" announcements. Yes, these are important causes but what is most troubling is that which is not discussed. To those pilots at mainline carriers this should register as a multiple alarm fire.

I would love to see fact based evidence of this, for all pilots to see.

I know that in 2000-01, UALALPA and DALPA produced the richest contracts in us airline history.

I know that SWAPA has NEVER produced contractual gains that propelled them to "lead the industry", and that APA has done pretty well but never really "led" the pack (well except maybe with the B-scale).

I know that NPA (Airtran), and FPA (FedEx) were independent and decided to JOIN ALPA instead of stay independent because it was a better way to make gains in their careers.

I know that USAPA has produced NOTHING tangible for their pilots in more than two years of "independent operation", and they have a multi-million budget deficit that threatens the existence of the organization.

This is what I know. I do not know of any accomplishments of DPA.

07-13-2011, 01:22 PM

#70822

johnso29

Moderator

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: B757/767

Posts: 13,088

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit

Just my opinion, but I would say that they are achieving small gains outside of Section 6, so that we are better able to deliver the larger final goal because "some" of the things have already been taken off the table that were going to be part of the "overwhelming" list of things that an NMB appointed mediator would find to be "overreaching" and end up putting us on ice. Less things that need to be on the table in Section 6 lends to a higher likelihood of us having leverage. The MEC is gaining outside of Section 6.

I applaud the ability of my elected reps to empower the Neg. Comm. to make improvements to our PWA even though we are in a "A contract is a contract" type of time. I think it bodes well for their abilities when the full Section 6 gets underway.

Which is exactly why personal agendas need to be set aside & the current NC remain intact!

07-13-2011, 01:31 PM

#70823

shiznit

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2009

Position: right for a long, long time

Posts: 2,642

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

How can they "prove" anything

Attend the next round of LEC meetings as a bloc and pass resolutions that promote some of the "smaller goals". It could be a coordinated resolution that is the same at every LEC meeting.
When/if it passes (provided DPA supports actually get up and DO something), it will end up at the MEC meeting from every direction in the same manner.
When/if it fails, well then it probably wasn't a good idea or there really isn't enough action behind the "talk" of the DPA faction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

They are not in a position to prove anything because they are not in a position right now to make any changes that affect us. All any of us can do is assess whether we think ALPA or DPA is best suited to accomplish restoration and put our careers back on track. It's not by any means a perfect science or sure thing either way.

I see big problems with ALPA... notably these:

1) Lack of objective. This MEC (and the one before it) absolutely refuses to state restoration as an objective. Why? And how are they going to achieve restoration if it's not even their objective? This is so out of touch with the vast majority of all the pilots I've ever known, worked with, and run across that it's just amazing. "Bottom up" my @ss! This MEC is about as "top down" as anything I've ever seen.

How about that resolution idea above that that directs the MEC (or at least each LEC officer level) to issue a "negotiations mission statement?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

2) Conflict of interest at National. Yes, our MEC gets to make the final call as to whether or not to put a TA out there for a vote. And we as a pilot group get to vote it up or down. But you know as well as I do that there will be a full court press sales pitch to get us to vote in favor of any TA brought to us. And where do you think our MEC is getting most of its research and advice from? ALPA National. And ALPA National has responsibility to protect the jobs of ALL its members, which includes a whole bunch of regional pilots who are currently doing a whole bunch of flying that was previously done by Delta pilots. This is a no brainer... despite all the rationalization we get on it from DALPA.

Prove they are effective at fixing things at the local and MEC level first. Show us the proposed plan and the wording....If they are superior to the current set up it will be implemented, if not, well maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

Again, you can't convince me that your ideas and future "Policy Manual" to run the union for Delta Pilots will be effective if you don't try to implement some of those ideas NOW!!

(and it will make your supposed transition that much easier.)

(and if the ideas have merit I have no doubt that the other group A carriers would get behind policy changes.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

So, no, I can't prove to you that DPA can do any better. I don't know for a fact that they will either. I like what I see with their proposed structure and their philosophy. But that's all I have to go on. For me, it really comes down to this: If I'm riding a horse that I know for sure is going to take me off a cliff, and I have an opportunity to change horses (even if I don't really know exactly where the other horse is going), well I'm going to change horses rather than die a certain death. Not a perfect analogy, but that's pretty much the way I see it.

I'm not going off a cliff on this horse yet. ALPA still has the championship when it comes to highest record contracts and gains in Section 6. Independent unions may lead now, but its only due to concessions, not due to their innate superiority to negotiate.

07-13-2011, 01:32 PM

#70824

Bucking Bar

Can't abide NAI

Joined APC: Jun 2007

Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler

Posts: 11,990

THIS IS GREAT! (dealing with the new 450+ airplane regional we pay) A MUST SEE!

YouTube - SureJet commercial

07-13-2011, 01:39 PM

#70825

Jack Bauer

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jun 2007

Posts: 1,357

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit

I would love to see fact based evidence of this, for all pilots to see.

I know that in 2000-01, UALALPA and DALPA produced the richest contracts in us airline history.

YouTube - ‪Uncle Rico‬&rlm;

The current ALPA has evolved into a bloated mess who may well be bankrupted soon. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...-dfr-suit.html

I have read both Flying the Line 1 and 2. Contrasting the ALPA of today to the organization Dave Behncke lead, they are not in the same category. One pushed for its constituents, raising the bar, the other owns a history of missed opportunities and top down leadership far removed from the wants and desires of its constituents. A self serving organization.

Even the ALPA of "contract 2000" had a different approach/philosophy from the ALPA we have a decade later. Apples and oranges my friend.

07-13-2011, 01:51 PM

#70826

Jack Bauer

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jun 2007

Posts: 1,357

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

THIS IS GREAT! (dealing with the new 450+ airplane regional we pay) A MUST SEE!

YouTube - SureJet commercial

Haha good stuff....the commercial that is. Not the fact we will be financing these guys to fight us over our flying.

07-13-2011, 02:06 PM

#70827

finis72

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2008

Position: 777 Sim Instructor

Posts: 745

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

You keep missing the point. Many of the pilot brotherhood have tried what you suggest. The infrastructure we call ALPA has been given opportunities to right the ship many times and yet they continue down a path the top leadership chooses contrary to what Delta Airline pilots are asking for. Truly, that ship has sailed.

Hell, right now ALPA could come out with a mission statement on scope and pay, with the aim of returning them to their proper place. They choose not to. Instead they fill their magazine with shameless self promotion referencing victories of laser light reductions and crew pass year 7 "we are getting closer" announcements. Yes, these are important causes but what is most troubling is that which is not discussed. To those pilots at mainline carriers this should register as a multiple alarm fire.

Please don't include me in your statement, I truly don't believe you talk for all Delta pilots. You have an opinion and 1 vote, I have an opinion and 1 vote. I think what you and I want are aligned, our differences occur on how we get there.

07-13-2011, 02:11 PM

#70828

Jesse

Banned

Joined APC: Jul 2010

Posts: 793

Quote:

Originally Posted by JABDIP

Just watch how many key strokes it takes to just check someone in not to mention doing something for someone that has a problem. I think it goes back to the IT being so outdated. A new system is needed badly that would simplify the whole process. Hopefully it is on its way!

I'm not an IT dude, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so I'm left to wonder in awe at how difficult implementing a new system would be. On the one hand you have this archaic system with a telephone book of codes to memorize in order to master it, and on the other a possible new system you would consider spending tons of money on but would require training time and working the kinks out of (or unteaching of bad habits), not to mention a system that is running 24/7 (i.e. when do you throw the switch and jump to the new system?). Glad (hope) they have smarter folks than me for such issues if and when they ever make the jump.