Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1026038)

Bar, I have ALWAYS agreed with you in principle...However principle doesn't protect my job....Either we are TOGETHER, or we are SEPARATE...as it stands, we are SEPARATE...There is no in between..

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1026040)

If this flying that ASA and CMR did was only "on loan", then why did we do it while YOUR fellow Delta pilots were on furlough? You didn't "loan it out"...You SOLD it to increase your pay and workrules....Come on brakechatter...call a spade a spade...

Originally Posted by Carl Spakler (Post 1026128)

I sincerely apologize if that's what it sounded like I was saying.

I don't believe 5000 North pilots support DPA. Nor do I deny there are reasons for pilots to be frustrated with alpa at times. There is a question of the baby and the bathwater however.

I'm just noting that if someone wanted to collect 50%+1 cards, the North numbers would not be sufficient.

So I am saying that it's a possibility that some pilots could be enticed to support DPA for one reason, when in fact the DPA wants the pilots' support for an entirely different (and unstated) reason.

It's a possibility and based on hearing it in two unrelated places, I have started to wonder if it's more than just a possibility.

I never even considered it until I overheard a guy talking about it in the pilot lounge and then another guy posted it on the alpa web boards.
The concept was (this is almost a direct quote) "If you don't think the SLI was fair, one way to remedy it now is to get longevity-based pay."

When I heard it, I was shocked I never thought of it myself!

It would basically make everyone's pay track along DOH lines rather than seniority numbers.

For example, it wouldn't bother "pilot A" as much that B is senior because A's DOH means A gets paid more than B.

The truth is longevity pay does somewhat mitigate the impact of seniority numbers on one's paycheck. And the truth is that might appeal to someone who wants to mitigate the affect of an SLI that did not go the way they'd wished. And the truth is I have heard a couple of DPA guys come out and advocate for longevity-pay as a means to dilute the significance of seniority numbers.

I don't mean to offend you or anyone else. But my facts are accurate and my reasoning is sound. My style of communication may not always be as diplomatic as the circumstances call for (and I am sorry for that) but I do believe I communicate in a factual, non-inflammatory manner.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1026141)

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1026163)

We are separate. Everyone else getting that?

I'm a little confused as to why all of a sudden we need to be fighting for the self interest of any other airline, ALPA or not.

Delta Connection and ASA is NOT Delta Air Lines. The future growth and quality of life of ASA is not the responsibility of Delta pilots but rather ASA pilots. Unity with ASA or any other DCI or "fighting together" is to compromise on Delta pilots and I have no interest in that.

We need to get jobs here and throw out the ladders, not sink our boat so that we all hang out in lifeboats.

The goal is simple, no DCI outside of ATR 42s or Dash 8-300s running back and forth from a hub and limited in range:



^^^ RAH pilots scope, 131 words. Delta scope? The meat of it really is upwards of 7,000 towards 8,000 because none of it makes sense without its definitions and exemptions and allowances.

no wonder we can't fight a holdings company gaming the system as a holdings company gaming the system because ALPA lawyers believe our scope clause they wrote is too weak? :confused:

But what did we figure, if we flew those 70-76 seaters we'd be sitting at 3,000+ new Delta pilots?



Two things, first, what flying was ASA doing before 9/11? I swear I thought they were flying for Delta?

Second, if all of the contracts with DCI are allowed to sunset, or using the genie analogy if the genie starves to death and no longer has to be put back in the bottle, then what? On what grounds would Sure Jet have to demand more flying? Would they need Delta pilots to sell more to them? If that's the case, then doesn't that mean Delta pilots own the flying in the first place?

If DCI operators own the flying because it was sold to them where is MESA? Don't they own some Delta flying? Why are they not flying DCI now? Or do they not count? Mesa was beneath ASA so really it's ASA and Comair that can't be cut out? Well, ASA, Comair is being cutout.



Taternuts, this is lame.

The idea is a good portion of the 5000 PMNWA pilots want to change the SLI, so they're trying to get 7000 PMDAL pilots to sign up for the DPA for whatever their personal well founded gripe is about ALPA Nation and then once at 50%+1 the PMNWA pilots will seek a new SLI. So let's pit PMNWA pilots against PMDAL pilots or something.

How about the reason DPA may reach 50%+1 has not one damn thing to do with NWA pilots trying to trick vulnerable PMDAL pilots but rather has everything to do with DALPA and/or ALPA National? This is baiting.

I'm still unimpressed by people who create Tsquared or Carl Speckler type handles because of Tsquare or Carl Spackler.

Kind of bothersome to see professional airline pilots going this route unless this was done by committee and is an open account for a multitude of people to use? Either way, fail.



It's kind of an oxymoron for verydemotivational.com to have posters like that, eh?

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1026205)

Guys, this is not a N v S issue, or even an SLI issue. It is propagated that was because it causes division. It is a tried and true method. Create a division among family, or premerger airlines, and as expected peoples' positions fall in line. Lets not fall for it.

The issue is whether or not you think you administration and MEC is aggressive enough, not the other stuff being spewed about. Debate the true issue, not the stuff that gets your blood pressure up, and frankly dooms this group moving forward as one.

The SLI is done, and was arbitrated, Lets fight fights that all of us want fought. Not fights that other want us to fight.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1026207)

Well said ACL.

Speaking of unity, lets unify for a pigpile on 80kts for posting oversize pictures:(

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1026207)

Well said ACL.

Speaking of unity, lets unify for a pigpile on 80kts for posting oversize pictures:(

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1026205)

Guys, this is not a N v S issue, or even an SLI issue. It is propagated that was because it causes division. It is a tried and true method. Create a division among family, or premerger airlines, and as expected peoples' positions fall in line. Lets not fall for it.

The issue is whether or not you think you administration and MEC is aggressive enough, not the other stuff being spewed about. Debate the true issue, not the stuff that gets your blood pressure up, and frankly dooms this group moving forward as one.

The SLI is done, and was arbitrated, Lets fight fights that all of us want fought. Not fights that other want us to fight.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1026205)

Guys, this is not a N v S issue, or even an SLI issue. It is propagated that was because it causes division. It is a tried and true method. Create a division among family, or premerger airlines, and as expected peoples' positions fall in line. Lets not fall for it.

The issue is whether or not you think you administration and MEC is aggressive enough, not the other stuff being spewed about. Debate the true issue, not the stuff that gets your blood pressure up, and frankly dooms this group moving forward as one.

The SLI is done, and was arbitrated, Lets fight fights that all of us want fought. Not fights that other want us to fight.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1026216)

I mean what I said. Everyone falls for it. Lets not fall for such an easy ploy. If we do, we are doomed in Section Six.