Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-29-2011, 04:45 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by tsquare
He's bucking for a moderator job. He heard it pays reeeeeeealy well.
Well it doesn't matter, I edited the quote for the hotel reason but I edit all of Ferds posts when I quote him to say something tremendously inappropriate. It's fun.
But I was voted in high school as the least likely to be a line check airman and automatically that means least likely to be an internet moderator.I wouldn't be any better at moderating then I would doing line checks. But if I was giving a line check, I'm the guy you'd want. [green smile face]... unless you **** me off then I go all passive aggressive.
Besides I want to yell at those idiots on airliners.net but thankfully you have to pay to join and I don't want to. I love the guy who posted all mad that AMR has to get permission from the pilots to break their contract and someone added in later that regionals hire pilots that don't even have a commercial license- they get it at the end of their IOE. Man, I wish I wasn't on a tight budget... I'd go in there swinging.
Besides, I don't mind getting infractions for posting Soparnos YouTube videos of gangsters having lawn mower wars to prove a point.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-29-2011 at 04:55 PM.
08-29-2011, 04:59 PM
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,713
What seems to set Moak apart is an understanding the industry has undergone significant structural change and the Delta agreement needs to embrace that change.
From my back of the napkin calculations, paying a pilot [even at mainline wages] seems to be a very small percentage of the cost an airline flight. Is the concept that airline management needs every nickle in order to compete?
It seems like labor is more and more being used as a "solution" to past poor management decisions. The airlines that exist today that are very successful (SWA, Emirates, Ryanair, etc) are successful because of excellent management, not because of labor give-backs. And all these airlines pay well - at all levels. (I'm not positive about Ryanair).
I know that at Delta we have a high debt load - from both the downturn after 9/11 and other poor decision (fuel hedging, probably aircraft financing in the past, etc) - and Richard and the current management team is trying to fix that. But is labor basically paying for the sins of past management, because we can't leave and they could?
08-29-2011, 05:05 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by iaflyer
But is labor basically paying for the sins of past management, because we can't leave and they could?
08-29-2011, 05:13 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Iaflyer,
On your paper napkin write down one other airline- FedEx. An airline that pays a second year Airbus FO $144 an hour.
And the best part, no nagging FAs like Swelbar to tell you to throw your contract and YOUR airline under the bus.
On your paper napkin write down one other airline- FedEx. An airline that pays a second year Airbus FO $144 an hour.
And the best part, no nagging FAs like Swelbar to tell you to throw your contract and YOUR airline under the bus.
08-29-2011, 05:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: M88B
Posts: 1,179
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
They get paid?
Well it doesn't matter, I edited the quote for the hotel reason but I edit all of Ferds posts when I quote him to say something tremendously inappropriate. It's fun.
But I was voted in high school as the least likely to be a line check airman and automatically that means least likely to be an internet moderator.I wouldn't be any better at moderating then I would doing line checks. But if I was giving a line check, I'm the guy you'd want. [green smile face]... unless you **** me off then I go all passive aggressive.
Besides I want to yell at those idiots on airliners.net but thankfully you have to pay to join and I don't want to. I love the guy who posted all mad that AMR has to get permission from the pilots to break their contract and someone added in later that regionals hire pilots that don't even have a commercial license- they get it at the end of their IOE. Man, I wish I wasn't on a tight budget... I'd go in there swinging.
Besides, I don't mind getting infractions for posting Soparnos YouTube videos of gangsters having lawn mower wars to prove a point.
Well it doesn't matter, I edited the quote for the hotel reason but I edit all of Ferds posts when I quote him to say something tremendously inappropriate. It's fun.
But I was voted in high school as the least likely to be a line check airman and automatically that means least likely to be an internet moderator.I wouldn't be any better at moderating then I would doing line checks. But if I was giving a line check, I'm the guy you'd want. [green smile face]... unless you **** me off then I go all passive aggressive.
Besides I want to yell at those idiots on airliners.net but thankfully you have to pay to join and I don't want to. I love the guy who posted all mad that AMR has to get permission from the pilots to break their contract and someone added in later that regionals hire pilots that don't even have a commercial license- they get it at the end of their IOE. Man, I wish I wasn't on a tight budget... I'd go in there swinging.
Besides, I don't mind getting infractions for posting Soparnos YouTube videos of gangsters having lawn mower wars to prove a point.
08-29-2011, 05:46 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
FTB,
Bill Swelbar has my respect, although he lags many of us by six months to a year in his published findings. Bill Swelbar was one of the first "authoritative" sources who documented ALPA's involvement in the selling of scope (bargaining capitol). At that time such a statement was highly controversial (yet true & I had been making that point based on ALPA's own publications for years).
Back then (early 2010) Bill's opinion was that unions had learned their lesson and would not repeat the errors of the earlier decade. I (for one) wrote him, saying that while I hoped he was correct, several of his own data points were not in agreement with his own conclusions:
Bill's mistake now, is that he assumes outsourcing is necessary to operate a small jet at reasonable cost. He also assumes that ALPA remains intransigent on small jet operating numbers. ALPA will also need to embrace other stakeholders as a matter of economic pragmatism. (pilots operating across certificates using one seniority number)
Bill Swelbar has my respect, although he lags many of us by six months to a year in his published findings. Bill Swelbar was one of the first "authoritative" sources who documented ALPA's involvement in the selling of scope (bargaining capitol). At that time such a statement was highly controversial (yet true & I had been making that point based on ALPA's own publications for years).
Back then (early 2010) Bill's opinion was that unions had learned their lesson and would not repeat the errors of the earlier decade. I (for one) wrote him, saying that while I hoped he was correct, several of his own data points were not in agreement with his own conclusions:
- ALPA's politics have not changed. The union members maintain an obsolete view of mainline flying which was the product of vastly different revenue and cost structures.
- To maintain a pre-deregulation fantasy career, ALPA has systematically sold off assets which harm its ability to negotiate future contracts. The greatest, of course, is scope.
- If Bill needed an example, he need look no further than the Delta MEC's handling of Compass.
- Economically, a "just say no" platform was not viable as a result of the effect of other stakeholders who would assert their interests.
Bill's mistake now, is that he assumes outsourcing is necessary to operate a small jet at reasonable cost. He also assumes that ALPA remains intransigent on small jet operating numbers. ALPA will also need to embrace other stakeholders as a matter of economic pragmatism. (pilots operating across certificates using one seniority number)
Bar;
That is your best post ever...ever!!!! Awesome. Spot frikkin on!!! woohoo!
08-29-2011, 05:59 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Ferd149
Slow,
What Bar said ref Compass.
I had trip with our exLAX LEC rep/hotel committe guy. Had a long discussion on this issue and we never did get a meeting of the minds as his main point (as I understood him) was that it was a conflict of interest to have them represented the way they were. I guess it's always going to be a slightly religious issues with me as it goes back to my voting NO on the bankruptcy contract (what started the discussion with MA) as I said no NewCo (Compass) and I ment it. After having it stuck up my arse, I expected us to take Compass back at the earliest opportunity. I thought the merger was that opportunity, but you guys didn't agree (straight party line vote).
Anyway, water under the bridge. But, I continue to think we made a mistake.
Ferd
PS MA is a great guy and I enjoyed flying with him. I also gained a great deal of understanding of how DALPA operates and almost volunteered to be on the hotel committee...ALMOST
What Bar said ref Compass.
I had trip with our exLAX LEC rep/hotel committe guy. Had a long discussion on this issue and we never did get a meeting of the minds as his main point (as I understood him) was that it was a conflict of interest to have them represented the way they were. I guess it's always going to be a slightly religious issues with me as it goes back to my voting NO on the bankruptcy contract (what started the discussion with MA) as I said no NewCo (Compass) and I ment it. After having it stuck up my arse, I expected us to take Compass back at the earliest opportunity. I thought the merger was that opportunity, but you guys didn't agree (straight party line vote).
Anyway, water under the bridge. But, I continue to think we made a mistake.
Ferd
PS MA is a great guy and I enjoyed flying with him. I also gained a great deal of understanding of how DALPA operates and almost volunteered to be on the hotel committee...ALMOST
Ferd;
Does Godfather's have a by-the-hour hotel upstairs?
Ferd for hotel committee. Ferd for hotel committee. It'd be the most senior layover in the system.
08-29-2011, 06:00 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Heyas,
The Compass sale was facilitated by one thing, and one thing only...releasing the company from the SECTION ONE clause that prohibited the divestiture of CPZ until there was a minimum number of DC-9 replacemen aircraft on the mainline property. Kicking the CPZ guys to the curb was just the end part of a sequence of events.
THAT was part of the JCBA that the fNWA guys had no hand in crafting. That was the way it was going to be, period.
Had the fDAL negotiators NOT given that away (and it was GIVEN away), we'd either still have CPZ or we'd have our DC-9 replacements.
It amazes me still that such an epic crank steppage occured.
Nu
The Compass sale was facilitated by one thing, and one thing only...releasing the company from the SECTION ONE clause that prohibited the divestiture of CPZ until there was a minimum number of DC-9 replacemen aircraft on the mainline property. Kicking the CPZ guys to the curb was just the end part of a sequence of events.
THAT was part of the JCBA that the fNWA guys had no hand in crafting. That was the way it was going to be, period.
Had the fDAL negotiators NOT given that away (and it was GIVEN away), we'd either still have CPZ or we'd have our DC-9 replacements.
It amazes me still that such an epic crank steppage occured.
Nu
Speaking of slowly, are we still waiting on slowplay?
08-29-2011, 06:15 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by scambo1
Ferd;
Does Godfather's have a by-the-hour hotel upstairs?
Ferd for hotel committee. Ferd for hotel committee. It'd be the most senior layover in the system.
Does Godfather's have a by-the-hour hotel upstairs?
Ferd for hotel committee. Ferd for hotel committee. It'd be the most senior layover in the system.
Thanks for the endorsement......
08-29-2011, 06:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by newKnow
So, we got the pilots through the flow through (slowly), but not the airplanes. Great deal.
Speaking of slowly, are we still waiting on slowplay?
Speaking of slowly, are we still waiting on slowplay?
Ferd <-----worst AF staff officer ever, had to have extra layers of "coordination"
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