Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-11-2011 | 01:47 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
The key is in the details, and we are all just speculating at this point. 
Consider it this way: one dropped trip with pay due to better recovery language is worth a whole lot of "protected" international override (at $4/hr). It all depends on how this is laid out. It could be a much larger gain for all pilots, including newhires.
Consider it this way: one dropped trip with pay due to better recovery language is worth a whole lot of "protected" international override (at $4/hr). It all depends on how this is laid out. It could be a much larger gain for all pilots, including newhires.
While we may be spinning at windmills:
I consider it in the inverse: What does it cost the company to train a new hire and then retrain him on another jet? It really is the second training event we are talking about, let's say it costs the company $35K.
What did we gain by the contract changes implemented? QOL with maybe a dollar cost value of $2-3K to the company.
How many newhires change equipment (base changes dont count) in year 1? 25%?
How many pilots are affected by 23k and oe recovery? I have no earthly idea.
But new hire equipment changes and recovery flying have a dollar value to the company. Recovery flying has a free payday value to the individual pilot only with some QOL thrown in. I believe you have the very definition of a concession coupled with throwing new hires under the bus.
Now if the pilot cost savings was paid in cash to the pilots, it would be different.
11-11-2011 | 01:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
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I totally understand the concerns about what we may have given up for this, but as an old guy, I would have given my left *** to be be seat locked in a window seat instead of the back seat of a 727.
11-11-2011 | 02:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
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While we may be spinning at windmills:
I consider it in the inverse: What does it cost the company to train a new hire and then retrain him on another jet? It really is the second training event we are talking about, let's say it costs the company $35K.
What did we gain by the contract changes implemented? QOL with maybe a dollar cost value of $2-3K to the company.
How many newhires change equipment (base changes dont count) in year 1? 25%?
How many pilots are affected by 23k and oe recovery? I have no earthly idea.
But new hire equipment changes and recovery flying have a dollar value to the company. Recovery flying has a free payday value to the individual pilot only with some QOL thrown in. I believe you have the very definition of a concession coupled with throwing new hires under the bus.
Now if the pilot cost savings was paid in cash to the pilots, it would be different.
I consider it in the inverse: What does it cost the company to train a new hire and then retrain him on another jet? It really is the second training event we are talking about, let's say it costs the company $35K.
What did we gain by the contract changes implemented? QOL with maybe a dollar cost value of $2-3K to the company.
How many newhires change equipment (base changes dont count) in year 1? 25%?
How many pilots are affected by 23k and oe recovery? I have no earthly idea.
But new hire equipment changes and recovery flying have a dollar value to the company. Recovery flying has a free payday value to the individual pilot only with some QOL thrown in. I believe you have the very definition of a concession coupled with throwing new hires under the bus.
Now if the pilot cost savings was paid in cash to the pilots, it would be different.
A 12 month freeze for new hires saves some money but it would be pennies on the dollar compared to recovery flying.
Again I would be shocked if we eliminated recovery flying by agreeing to a 12 month freeze. The company would never go for it. Changes to recovery yes but to eliminate it for this change would really surprise me.
11-11-2011 | 02:17 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
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From: 777B
Recovery flying is a huge cost savings to the company. In virtually every IROPS it reduces greenslips by a huge amount. Elimination of recovery flying would also mandate a increase in staffing across all categories.
A 12 month freeze for new hires saves some money but it would be pennies on the dollar compared to recovery flying.
Again I would be shocked if we eliminated recovery flying by agreeing to a 12 month freeze. The company would never go for it. Changes to recovery yes but to eliminate it for this change would really surprise me.
A 12 month freeze for new hires saves some money but it would be pennies on the dollar compared to recovery flying.
Again I would be shocked if we eliminated recovery flying by agreeing to a 12 month freeze. The company would never go for it. Changes to recovery yes but to eliminate it for this change would really surprise me.
Are you confusing recovery flying with a reroute? If you are, then I agree with you, you cant run an airline without the ability to reroute.
What we are talking about is the good deal of years past of bidding to fly with a line check airman because your trip would get bought for an OE. You would get paid without working...we gave that up, now it sounds like we got it back. Hardly reason to open the hiring floodgates.
11-11-2011 | 02:18 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 868
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From: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Humusbchittenme, do you know how many applications are sent in on a regular basis. It's staggaring. I will agree with some of you guys on the premise that just because it sucked for me as a new guy doesn't make it right for the next new guy, BUT I can't even believe any of you guys can actually think whinning about a 12 month equipment freeze is going to get any sympathy. Ain't happenin!!! Boo Hoo. And as some have pointed out, it's not even a base freeze. Since I was hired I've seen new guys come right out of training and go directly to the 757/767. Must be rough. We all know timing is everything, but to actually have guys indicate that we are throwing new hires under the bus and that we have (especially 767 Captains) the "Screw them, I've got mine attitude" is, quite frankly, offensive. Over many years and many contracts, we have given many concessions in order to "share the wealth" and limit the misery for the new guys. Now you guys have done it. I have a trip tomorrow and now I'm all jacked up. 
BTW: I wasn't saying that you said all of those things.
BTW: I wasn't saying that you said all of those things.I didn't say any of those things. I don't know you from Adam, and I have no idea what your opinions on C2012 are. All I said was I don't want our potential (or mythical) new-hires to have a sh!ttier deal than I had when I got hired. I'm sorry you had to sit sideways for 4 years and endure a B scale for 5. I didn't. As a new-hire I had it pretty good, and I would like to see all of our future new-hires have it just as good as I did (sorry, T.... I know the grammar sucks). Just because you had a crappy first few years doesn't mean I should have, and it certainly doesn't mean the next wave of new-hires has to either. I left the "I dealt with it so you have to also" behind at the Fraternity house when I graduated college. My $0.02.
Have a good trip.
11-11-2011 | 02:21 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2007
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11-11-2011 | 02:25 PM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
MEM guys? I don't think so. They will MD into ATL. IF they lived in the NE they would have already picked the DTW 320. The 320 and DC9 guys will MD into ATL on the 320, the 330, and the MD88. But, there will be a certain group who would love to fly the bus in NYC. Can you think who I am talking about? BOS commuters, due to the Shuttle flying have home layovers.
11-11-2011 | 02:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
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I think when the shuttle was an -88 it scared a lot of the BOS commuters off. Now that it's a bus they might pull the trigger.
Not to mention the 88 guys that will bid over to get their shuttle flying back (even guys that don't live in BOS).
11-11-2011 | 02:44 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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Does anyone think Delta is setting up to furlough?
11-11-2011 | 02:46 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
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