NewK: My apologies

George and ACL; Thanks for the very illuminating financial discussion. Your short posts were very to the point. I have to wonder why our unions contract comparison did not address these toopics in this way. I really have to wonder. Actually, I don't.

My last trip, one of the pilots had his contract comparison booklet. In black magic marker he had written on the cover "Expectations Management". The other 3 pilots had sent in their cards...I was surprised.

 

Um.....




Go to google images and put in: Air Comet Flight Attendants

Their flight attendants have a calendar out...



Our ER flight attendants have one as well... it's called "I was at Pan Am for 15 years..."

 

Now that there is great joy over the RJ's having wifi, I really want the contract to say separate paint schemes and eliminate the words "Delta" from Delta Con.

Call it "Pilots Against Similar Schemes Generating Artificial Seamlessness" or PASS GAS!





Or "Pilots For Truth In Airline Advertising" or PFTIAA.

 

I think a grievance would be interesting.

The logic is simple:

The contract sets an ALV. (22.C.1 Note 2)
The contract sets a pick-up limit of ALV +15. (23.P.7.a)
The contract says the Pilot to Pilot Swap Board can't be used if the transaction would create or be within one hour of creating an FAR or PWA conflict. (23.F.7.b)

How does the company (and ALPA!!) ignore that language?
How is it not a violation?

The max pick-up rule has a long history on this property. It has always been accepted and explained by saying "the contract protects us from the company AND FROM OURSELVES."

I think that principle was too casually abandoned by ALPA when the "Swap Board" was created and trip parking somehow got endorsed as a way to get around the contractual pick up limit.

 

 

No apologies necessary, scambo.

 

Under, side, top and full on pancake on the last pic. I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight after that pic!!!

 

You mean like this:

 

Negative mi amigo. The contract sets a white slip pickup limit of ALV+15. Neither the swapboard nor Swap with the Pot are subject to the white slip pickup limits. In the case of swap with the pot, we have been able to swap a shorter trip for a longer one, all the way to FAR limits, since we have had the ALV system (think BK givebacks six years ago). Prior to the ALV system, when we had a "cap" then you also had a "max projection" that Swap with the Pot (and if we had it at the time--but we didn't--the Swapboard likely as well) was subject to.

Because using the swapboard to get a trip that takes you well above ALV+15 isn't legally a PWA conflict, no matter how dubious it looks on the surface. I personally don't like the trip parking concept. It violates the spirit of the contract I think most of us agree. It doesn't mean that it violates the lawyer-esque letter of it. The problem is that the union can't grieve what it or the members think or wish the contract says...only what it truly does. This is a troublesome gray area that needs to be clarified. But I'm not sure it warrants a grievance.

True, but max pickup was softened significantly with the ALV system, and the concept of max projection was abandoned entirely, allowing guys to swap with the pot up to FAR limits. Whether that is good or bad, it opened up the door to "trip parking."

I mostly agree, but don't agree with the statement that trip parking has been "endorsed." I think that it does need to be clearly addressed, one way or the other. Contact your rep to make your feelings known. Frankly, if we just implemented a rule stating "once swapped off a trip, you can't take it back" that would end this angst. I would also like to hear a guy who no longer can trip park try and justify how he needs to keep doing it.

 

MoBetter.
You can tell it's not painted on by the "bridge" effect across the chasm.