Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-06-2011 | 07:47 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
I want their hourly rate at a minimum however I want our retirement plan and work rules. That will put Delta costs well above SWA total block costs. I think Delta can afford it and my contract survey will reflect that.
Some will put they want total restoration and nothing less. Its a great goal but is it achievable in one contract. I don't think so. In fact I think that if we opened for that we assure ourselves of only 1 thing. We will work under the current contract for at least the next 5 years.
Some will put they want total restoration and nothing less. Its a great goal but is it achievable in one contract. I don't think so. In fact I think that if we opened for that we assure ourselves of only 1 thing. We will work under the current contract for at least the next 5 years.
Basic negotiating strategy is to open for more than you're ultimately willing to settle on. So if you think it's wrong to open with a 70% increase, yet you think it's wrong to open with anything less than a 50% increase (I'm assuming that because you said your contract survey "will reflect that")... don't you think that is too narrow a range and does not allow the room needed for negotiation? It just seems to me that you're making an inconsistent and/or unrealistic argument here.
09-06-2011 | 08:02 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Give me the names of the DALPA guys who have told you they are willing to take less then SWA. I have not meet one. Everytime I have asked on here I get BS responses. No one can even give dates let alone names.
I don't believe anyone on the DALPA forums has stated we will sacrifice the bottom 1500 guys. What I have seen posted is a simple fact. If we switched to the SWA contract today and staffed at the level of manning SWA uses we would have a large surplus of pilots.
I for one am not willing to give up any work rules that would decrease manning. We already gave up 3000 jobs in work rules. We don't need to give up any more. When you look at SWA compensation you do however have to look at the total package and the final pilot block hour costs.
The form 10's for 2010 had Delta at 690 an hour and SWA at 698 within a buck or two. There are two reasons the pilot cost per block hour are so close. SW is more efficient and Delta has 3 and 4 man operations that skew the numbers in favor of SWA. Still even accounting for the 3 and 4 man operations are total pilot costs per block hour are not as different as many suggest and post on here.
When you go into negotiations and ask for SWA you need to be very careful. There could be lost of negative consequences. I for one don't think SWA has much relevance to Delta.
I want their hourly rate at a minimum however I want our retirement plan and work rules. That will put Delta costs well above SWA total block costs. I think Delta can afford it and my contract survey will reflect that.
Some will put they want total restoration and nothing less. Its a great goal but is it achievable in one contract. I don't think so. In fact I think that if we opened for that we assure ourselves of only 1 thing. We will work under the current contract for at least the next 5 years. Personally I think that a two step process will put a lot more money in my pocket and produce a higher quality of life. I would rather be working on our second contract in 2016 then still negotiating this one.
I don't believe anyone on the DALPA forums has stated we will sacrifice the bottom 1500 guys. What I have seen posted is a simple fact. If we switched to the SWA contract today and staffed at the level of manning SWA uses we would have a large surplus of pilots.
I for one am not willing to give up any work rules that would decrease manning. We already gave up 3000 jobs in work rules. We don't need to give up any more. When you look at SWA compensation you do however have to look at the total package and the final pilot block hour costs.
The form 10's for 2010 had Delta at 690 an hour and SWA at 698 within a buck or two. There are two reasons the pilot cost per block hour are so close. SW is more efficient and Delta has 3 and 4 man operations that skew the numbers in favor of SWA. Still even accounting for the 3 and 4 man operations are total pilot costs per block hour are not as different as many suggest and post on here.
When you go into negotiations and ask for SWA you need to be very careful. There could be lost of negative consequences. I for one don't think SWA has much relevance to Delta.
I want their hourly rate at a minimum however I want our retirement plan and work rules. That will put Delta costs well above SWA total block costs. I think Delta can afford it and my contract survey will reflect that.
Some will put they want total restoration and nothing less. Its a great goal but is it achievable in one contract. I don't think so. In fact I think that if we opened for that we assure ourselves of only 1 thing. We will work under the current contract for at least the next 5 years. Personally I think that a two step process will put a lot more money in my pocket and produce a higher quality of life. I would rather be working on our second contract in 2016 then still negotiating this one.
09-06-2011 | 08:21 AM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,007
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
Give me the names of the DALPA guys who have told you they are willing to take less then SWA. I have not meet one. Everytime I have asked on here I get BS responses. No one can even give dates let alone names.
I don't believe anyone on the DALPA forums has stated we will sacrifice the bottom 1500 guys. What I have seen posted is a simple fact. If we switched to the SWA contract today and staffed at the level of manning SWA uses we would have a large surplus of pilots.
I for one am not willing to give up any work rules that would decrease manning. We already gave up 3000 jobs in work rules. We don't need to give up any more. When you look at SWA compensation you do however have to look at the total package and the final pilot block hour costs.
The form 10's for 2010 had Delta at 690 an hour and SWA at 698 within a buck or two. There are two reasons the pilot cost per block hour are so close. SW is more efficient and Delta has 3 and 4 man operations that skew the numbers in favor of SWA. Still even accounting for the 3 and 4 man operations are total pilot costs per block hour are not as different as many suggest and post on here.
When you go into negotiations and ask for SWA you need to be very careful. There could be lost of negative consequences. I for one don't think SWA has much relevance to Delta.
I want their hourly rate at a minimum however I want our retirement plan and work rules. That will put Delta costs well above SWA total block costs. I think Delta can afford it and my contract survey will reflect that.
Some will put they want total restoration and nothing less. Its a great goal but is it achievable in one contract. I don't think so. In fact I think that if we opened for that we assure ourselves of only 1 thing. We will work under the current contract for at least the next 5 years. Personally I think that a two step process will put a lot more money in my pocket and produce a higher quality of life. I would rather be working on our second contract in 2016 then still negotiating this one.
I don't believe anyone on the DALPA forums has stated we will sacrifice the bottom 1500 guys. What I have seen posted is a simple fact. If we switched to the SWA contract today and staffed at the level of manning SWA uses we would have a large surplus of pilots.
I for one am not willing to give up any work rules that would decrease manning. We already gave up 3000 jobs in work rules. We don't need to give up any more. When you look at SWA compensation you do however have to look at the total package and the final pilot block hour costs.
The form 10's for 2010 had Delta at 690 an hour and SWA at 698 within a buck or two. There are two reasons the pilot cost per block hour are so close. SW is more efficient and Delta has 3 and 4 man operations that skew the numbers in favor of SWA. Still even accounting for the 3 and 4 man operations are total pilot costs per block hour are not as different as many suggest and post on here.
When you go into negotiations and ask for SWA you need to be very careful. There could be lost of negative consequences. I for one don't think SWA has much relevance to Delta.
I want their hourly rate at a minimum however I want our retirement plan and work rules. That will put Delta costs well above SWA total block costs. I think Delta can afford it and my contract survey will reflect that.
Some will put they want total restoration and nothing less. Its a great goal but is it achievable in one contract. I don't think so. In fact I think that if we opened for that we assure ourselves of only 1 thing. We will work under the current contract for at least the next 5 years. Personally I think that a two step process will put a lot more money in my pocket and produce a higher quality of life. I would rather be working on our second contract in 2016 then still negotiating this one.
cough cough, up North, cough cough
09-06-2011 | 08:53 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
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That was never stated. Go read straight from the horses mouth on our forum. More DPA apologist lies.
09-06-2011 | 08:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
Likes: 1
From: Urban chicken rancher.
Buzz,
As was mentioned before, if you are more than 5 hours negative bank, this is probably the section that applies to you. It's under "Full Service Bank" in Section 12:
As far as turning around and withdrawing it, I don't think you will be able to do it. You can take a look at your time card, take a look at where it says "Bank Opt Limit 1." I believe this is what you can use the bank to fill up to every month. This month mine will only let me fill up to 77 hours based on an ALV of 72 hours.
Denny
As was mentioned before, if you are more than 5 hours negative bank, this is probably the section that applies to you. It's under "Full Service Bank" in Section 12:
In each bid period:
21 a. a pilot may deposit into his bank account up to 20 hours of credit that is accumulated
22 in excess of 80 hours in such bid period.
23 b. the first five hours of credit a pilot accumulates in excess of 80 hours will be
24 automatically applied against a negative bank balance. Such repayment does not
25 constitute a deposit21 a. a pilot may deposit into his bank account up to 20 hours of credit that is accumulated
22 in excess of 80 hours in such bid period.
23 b. the first five hours of credit a pilot accumulates in excess of 80 hours will be
24 automatically applied against a negative bank balance. Such repayment does not
As far as turning around and withdrawing it, I don't think you will be able to do it. You can take a look at your time card, take a look at where it says "Bank Opt Limit 1." I believe this is what you can use the bank to fill up to every month. This month mine will only let me fill up to 77 hours based on an ALV of 72 hours.
Denny
Thanks guys!
09-06-2011 | 08:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
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09-06-2011 | 08:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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Posts: 2,539
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09-06-2011 | 09:02 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
09-06-2011 | 09:15 AM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: A-320A
09-06-2011 | 09:17 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
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