So, Occupy, you think the pie is infinite??? Really?

OK, I want $1000/hr, 8 weeks of vacation, touching trips, and 600 hours of sick leave at full pay. Figure I'll fly two trips/year, and make an even $1 million. If you think that is unreasonable, then you are acknowledging the pot is finite, which is all sailing was trying to say.

 

Be more specific. Do you want their unadjusted rate? In other words, a 12 year Captain gets $186.06/TFP? Or do you want the supposedly adjusted for TFP rate of $210? Why the focus on rate? Is this a **** measuring contest? Or do you want our domestic narrowbody pilots to actually bring home as much money as SWA pilots to support our families... and to do so working about the same number of days?

Well, which is it? Cause if you're talking anything less than some combination of rates and work rules that result in anything less than about a 50% increase in W2 for our MD-88/90 pilots (and that same percentage increase applied across the board to the rest of our fleet), then you are advocating that we should be making LESS than SWA pilots for essentially the same job. In fact, from what you have previously posted, it sure sounds to me like you are advocating that we should be making significantly less than SWA pilots!

You're trying to play both sides of this argument. And we're not stupid.

 

I had the same reaction when I read Sailing's post, but at the same time, I was somewhat happy to hear him semi-quantify his contract wishes...The reason I say this is because I think his perspective is probably DALPA reality. He is not an insider, but he is informed. Draw your own conclusions from there.

This is the preview of the DALPA sales pitch. Its not going to be sold on w-2, its going to be sold on payrates. This approach appeals to the Delta pilot who wants to believe - through denial - that he is still at the top of the pyramid airline.

Will another aspect of the contract have their (swa's) scope clause?

 

Your 50% number could never be supported in front of the nmb. The actual hourly adusted rate for SW is 212 an hour not 210. That is the rate I am using. Our rate for a 737 CA will be 181 or so on 1 Jan. As far as days worked again many here are taking a number out of context. The pamphlet put out to Airtran stated over the last 5 years SW pilots averaged 12 days of work per month. What that means is that when you average in days a reserve pilot worked with days a line pilot worked and then account for vacation, sick, mil leave, dropped trips ect.. the average was 12 days. The average will be less then 12 for Delta pilots over the same days. When the 2011 numbers come out the total compensation for Delta will be even closer then 2010 with SW. We had a huge number of double pay trips, a 4 percent raise and 6 percent profit sharing. The 2010 numbers again from MIT were 166,000 for SW pilots on average and 142,000 for Delta pilots on average. Go before the NMB and throw out 50% to get even and you will not look good or even smart. The exact numbers we will there for both sides to see.
I do however believe our goal should be for the MD88 to come up to SW. That slants the numbers more in our favor.

 

The guys I fly with and my DAL friends pretty much all say they expect a hefty raise. I would say the unofficial average would be in the 40%+ on date of signing and 5-6% annual after that.

 

Those MIT numbers are worthless for comparison purposes... if the purpose of your comparison is to compare the standard of living provided by the W2 of a Delta domestic narrowbody pilot with the standard of living provided by the W2 of an SWA domestic narrowbody pilot. 50% is indeed about right. Now, if your purpose is to minimize the pay differential between Delta pilots and SWA pilots in an attempt to minimize what the company will have to come up with for our next contract... well that's a different story. The MIT project that touts those numbers is headed by a guy who specializes in minimizing airline labor costs. Again, we're just not that stupid.

I picked up at the hotel this morning at 4:30am. Finished my trip, and now I'm at home coming down with a cold. I'm running out of steam tonight, so I'll let Carl finish you off on this one. I predict he's going to take you apart. I'll be traveling all day tomorrow for Thanksgiving. I'll check back in a couple of days... popcorn in hand. This should be good!

 

Do you think the contract comparison we received as well as other union produced sources of information will have any impact on the survey results? I do. Not every has a close friend/next door neighbor that works at SWA like I do to get the real info. I expected leadership to provide a vector, but if they want to lead from the bottom up, fine.....but at least give useable info out. If the contract survey comes in below SWA, guess who's at fault? And I'm kinda tired of hearing the RLA parking issue when all my minimums are based on an existing contract at a profitable carrier.

 

GO BIG ORANGE

Back to the rest of the party

 

Vandy, true to form, disappointed.

 

Can't you just hear sailingfun's DALPA contacts saying: "What the **** are you trying to do to us here man? We can't let this stuff out to the members until they see it in the Tentative Agreement. Now go back in there and fix this. We're not paying you that volunteer flight pay loss for nothing!"

And then...

Most of us are able to remember your previous posts and see your double speak here sailingfun. It's just so amazing that DALPA is stooping to this level of activity. The constant lowering of expectations, mischaracterization of SWAPA's contract, and purposeful omission of Air France pay makes you guys look like you are literally being funded by management.

Like I've always said, we'll have to fight DALPA just as hard as management if we are to have any shot at an industry leading contract. Darn shame.

Carl