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SFWB 12-05-2011 01:13 PM

After four hours working on VA paperwork, doing honey do's for another 2 hours, I needed a distraction from my friends on L&G. Yikes! too much AA bankruptcy talk. Finally, "I love Chocolate." Finally some illustrations. Thank you friends. And babbitt. Good news finally.

Wasatch Phantom 12-05-2011 01:46 PM

I guess I don't "get it"...

My impression is Randy Babbitt was a better FAA Administrator than most, who are typically clueless political appointees. I don't know the man personally, but I find his arrest for DUI sad.

I don't find humor or joy in his misfortune....

Bill Lumberg 12-05-2011 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1096990)
Well, perhaps Donald Lee will be offered the spot. Perhaps not.

More likely, that was the last Ex ALPA official you will see at the top of the FAA.

How about Sulley? I would think he would fight for pilots. Honestly, he would be a good choice.

Bill Lumberg 12-05-2011 02:18 PM

Someone just sent me this.....great
 
By Terry Maxon/Reporter
[email protected] | Bio
11:54 AM on Mon., Dec. 5, 2011 | Permalink
Southwest Airlines chairman and chief executive officer Gary Kelly offered some surprising observations Monday about his three biggest competitors:

• The old, legacy carriers, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines, don't exist anymore. They've been replaced by better versions with lower costs.

• American Airlines won't survive if it doesn't convert itself as they did.

• Southwest has to find a way to overcome the lower costs of its competitors.

In a letter to employees and in a separate hotline, Kelly said Southwest will have to fight to keep its competitive spot against major competitors who have transformed themselves, like United or Delta, or will transform themselves, as American must do.

In the letter he said:

"American isn't the only airline not to survive without bankruptcy. Let's look back to 1989, the year Southwest became the newest member of the old major airline club, based on annual revenues.
"All the majors from 1989 have gone bankrupt. Pan Am. Eastern. Braniff. Continental. America West. TWA. US Air. United. Delta. Northwest. And now, American. Every single one failed.

"Why? Not because of Customer Service, but because of high costs. Great Customer Service cannot overcome high costs. That is the imperative I wrote about a decade ago: low costs."


On the hotline, he added about American Airlines:

"I am sure they will shrink. I am sure they will be forced to reduce their costs or else they will be shut down and liquidated. It'll be long. It'll be painful for them. Along the way, they lost their way. As the world changed over the last decade, they were simply not able to adjust and especially with their labor contracts."
"In the near term, they'll be very distracted. That may be somewhat good for us. It may be very good for us in some markets.

"But I can assure you, over the longer term, we're going to face a more formidable opponent, just like we now face with United, who is performing the best they have in 20 years, and also Delta, also performing very well and in some ways better than Southwest Airlines."

Southwest has to "get our costs down through increased productivity to compete against these new legacy airlines," Kelly said on the hotline.

"Their costs are much lower than they were. Their labor costs are lower than ours. Actually, they aren't what you would call legacy airlines. They are new. They are different. The old legacy airlines are dead and buried," he said.

bigbusdriver 12-05-2011 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1096047)
When? 3 years from now? Maybe? Or do we only need to touch 50% for an extremely short period of time, then an entirely new 3 year period of unbalance can begin?

This is such a typical example of an MEC administrator dude only telling half the story. Why not tell the whole story alfaromeo? Do you not know it? Why don't you tell us that you were so proud of the language that the whole MEC voted for it? Oh wait...



Clearly many of us see this for the lie that it is. We're also troubled that these lies and half truths keep coming from the permanent MEC bureaucracy whose lifestyle depends on the continued placation of management.

Carl

The NWA JV with KLM said that NW would share 50% with KLM and that 47% (46% was the floor) was in compliance. We had a 12 month lookback and a 24 month lookback for compliance and then the company had a further 6 months to adjust the ratio back within that 4 percentage points (30 months). Then the CBA went on to say that if other airlines were added to the JV that it would be in compliance it NW maintained it's 50% annual KLM ratio, not the ratio of the new JV partners. We were only going to maintain our ratio with KLM not the new group.

Fast forward to the JPWACBA where it became a 50/50 with KLM and AF not just against our previous KLM numbers like our CBA language. We get half of the combined KLM and AF numbers, then they added a third airline to their side of the JV and we still retained 50 percent or all the flying while the three of them are dividing up their side of flying into thirds now.

NW 50% KLM
new DL 50% KLM and AF
mou DL 50% KLM and AF and Alitalia

DL 50% | AF/KLM/AZ 50%

Is our half of four airlines total Atlantic flying bigger than their half they are dividing by three?

forgot to bid 12-05-2011 02:42 PM


Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1097023)
How about Sulley? I would think he would fight for pilots. Honestly, he would be a good choice.

Maybe someone from here could take over?

forgot to bid 12-05-2011 02:48 PM


Originally Posted by SFWB (Post 1097007)
After four hours working on VA paperwork, doing honey do's for another 2 hours, I needed a distraction from my friends on L&G. Yikes! too much AA bankruptcy talk. Finally, "I love Chocolate." Finally some illustrations. Thank you friends. And babbitt. Good news finally.

Yeah I'm kind of just hanging on by the rudder... or better yet trim tab... Or the louvre where air is drawn in to the heat exchanger... or tail skid... well, I'm in the back mumbling about how much the overnights on ATL 88 suck.

We've got to get rid of the downtown requirement. We should specify which ones must be, like a NYC, BOS, IND, SFO, ORD/MDW but man, we stay at some dumps in dumpy downtowns.

DAL 88 Driver 12-05-2011 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1097042)
We've got to get rid of the downtown requirement. We should specify which ones must be, like a NYC, BOS, IND, SFO, ORD/MDW but man, we stay at some dumps in dumpy downtowns.

I've been saying that for 14 years now. Does about as much good as telling the ALPA guys they should be shooting for restoration. :rolleyes:

TheManager 12-05-2011 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1097030)
By Terry Maxon/Reporter
[email protected] | Bio
11:54 AM on Mon., Dec. 5, 2011 | Permalink
Southwest Airlines chairman and chief executive officer Gary Kelly offered some surprising observations Monday about his three biggest competitors:

• The old, legacy carriers, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines, don't exist anymore. They've been replaced by better versions with lower costs.

• American Airlines won't survive if it doesn't convert itself as they did.

• Southwest has to find a way to overcome the lower costs of its competitors.

In a letter to employees and in a separate hotline, Kelly said Southwest will have to fight to keep its competitive spot against major competitors who have transformed themselves, like United or Delta, or will transform themselves, as American must do.

In the letter he said:

"American isn't the only airline not to survive without bankruptcy. Let's look back to 1989, the year Southwest became the newest member of the old major airline club, based on annual revenues.
"All the majors from 1989 have gone bankrupt. Pan Am. Eastern. Braniff. Continental. America West. TWA. US Air. United. Delta. Northwest. And now, American. Every single one failed.

"Why? Not because of Customer Service, but because of high costs. Great Customer Service cannot overcome high costs. That is the imperative I wrote about a decade ago: low costs."


On the hotline, he added about American Airlines:

"I am sure they will shrink. I am sure they will be forced to reduce their costs or else they will be shut down and liquidated. It'll be long. It'll be painful for them. Along the way, they lost their way. As the world changed over the last decade, they were simply not able to adjust and especially with their labor contracts."
"In the near term, they'll be very distracted. That may be somewhat good for us. It may be very good for us in some markets.

"But I can assure you, over the longer term, we're going to face a more formidable opponent, just like we now face with United, who is performing the best they have in 20 years, and also Delta, also performing very well and in some ways better than Southwest Airlines."

Southwest has to "get our costs down through increased productivity to compete against these new legacy airlines," Kelly said on the hotline.

"Their costs are much lower than they were. Their labor costs are lower than ours. Actually, they aren't what you would call legacy airlines. They are new. They are different. The old legacy airlines are dead and buried," he said.


Hey Bill.... Interesting insight in this article.

Having traveled on LUV much since the merger, I have observed that they already are quite productive and efficient.

As our much esteemed and astute in house financial analyst Alfa has observed, this is also a revenue problem for SWA.

We should start a pool with a buy in based on which month and in what year will SWA adopt baggage fees and so on.

Got to think it is inevitable. The good thing about that will be that we will be able to watch football games without having to see anymore of those bizarre ads.

buzzpat 12-05-2011 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1097042)
We've got to get rid of the downtown requirement. We should specify which ones must be, like a NYC, BOS, IND, SFO, ORD/MDW but man, we stay at some dumps in dumpy downtowns.

I agree. I've always heard that the downtown thing is for the senior international guys. Domestically, I don't think its that big a deal and, in fact, is oftentimes a pain in the ass. See an NYC layover at the dumpy downtown place when you land at JFK at 5:00 PM on a Friday and have 12 hours. Two hours later, you get to the dumpy downtown hotel.

Our best domestic downtown is BOS.


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