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Old 02-22-2012 | 05:00 PM
  #90041  
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Originally Posted by reddog25
Dont worry about where to live...worry about that Dispatchers can trump pilots on the jump seat....the PILOTS jump seat...check out the FOM.....it is BS
Mmmm...sort of.

Dispatchers completing required FAA training are ahead of pilots.
Dispatchers going to work are ahead of pilots returning from work.
Pilots are ahead of any dispatcher if he (the pilot) is going to work.
Pilots on personal travel are ahead of any dispatcher on personal travel.
Old 02-22-2012 | 05:01 PM
  #90042  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Well said, Scambo.

One other point to add. IF management likes the idea of disunity in the pilot group (because it helps their side in the negotiation process), and if DPA causes disunity in the pilot group (which hurts our side), then wouldn't management want DPA to succeed? And if management wants DPA to succeed, why have they been so supportive of DALPA and unsupportive (even obstructive) of DPA?
Great questions.

Carl
Old 02-22-2012 | 05:02 PM
  #90043  
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Originally Posted by newKnow
At some point, I'm going to have to fit into my uniform again, so thank you.

I'm just messin' with ya anyways, 80. You too, Buzz.


I've got to go and sharpen my skills. I just saw Super again, and he's making me look bad.
newKnow, aka the "STIG" as he's referred to in training, got his DC9 Pilot Hall of fame pic taken today. He was all prepped and ready for a sim session as you can see.

Old 02-22-2012 | 05:03 PM
  #90044  
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Originally Posted by johnso29
I guess we aren't overstaffed then.
Thought we were 4% overstaffed according to reports from other lounge visits?

Of course its part of the tried and true negotiating doom and gloom psyops: be overstaffed so you can do have lots of MD's to demoralize the troops and lower expectations.
Old 02-22-2012 | 05:07 PM
  #90045  
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
Thought we were 4% overstaffed according to reports from other lounge visits?

Of course its part of the tried and true negotiating doom and gloom psyops: be overstaffed so you can do have lots of MD's to demoralize the troops and lower expectations.
^^^THIS^^^

Max out the RJs
Max out the code-shares
Displace off the big jets
point to AA and tell us we're lucky.

All the while the Q1-Q4 reports shows a successful company...

Cheers
George
Old 02-22-2012 | 05:08 PM
  #90046  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
We have 4,400 cards earned from only a website and two small public events. This from a group that rarely particiaptes in numbers greater than 50% for anything. If you knew anything about polling, you'd know that an in-house union already has the majority. If DALPA called for a vote today (just to be sure), they'd lose in a landslide. Why? 50% wouldn't vote at all. And all 4,400 DPA members are some seriously energized folks. DALPA knows this and, as such, would never call for a vote.
Maybe D-ALPA isn't calling for a vote because they're too busy.....wait for it....wait for it....TOO FRICKEN BUSY PREPARING FOR YOUR SECTION 6 NEGOTIATIONS CARL!! Open your eyes. Nobody wants to waste their time switching bargaining agents this close to a negotiation period. It'd literally be "cutting our own throats".

You think D-ALPA would lose in a landslide? You don't have any other facts other than the 4,400 cards you proclaim, and I guarantee you that of those 4,400 that "expressed interest in DPA" wouldn't automatically vote the same in a true election of bargaining agents. Don't tell me you think they would Carl, come on!

FYP!


Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
That's just highly opinionated rhetoric. The truth is that most DPA members have a high distrust of DALPA, but a much greater distrust of management. When it comes to a fight against management to improve the lives of our families, we'll be behind whatever entity has the legal right to bargain for us. Period. I know this is the latest popular straw man being floated by DALPA, but it's a lie.
As is your opinions that DPA would have a "snowballs chance" doing the same or better against our management team than what D-ALPA has to offer. I believe the group has made some progress with management, OUTSIDE OF SECTION 6, all the while DPA is counting their cards, hoping to get to that magical, (or mythical ) number.

You say that the DPA members distrust of management is greater than their distrust of D-ALPA. Where is that Carl? Or is that just some highly opinionated rhetoric again? Come on? Quit talking out both sides of your mouth, and have DPA PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS, and establish some communication to the pilot group stating these, what you call, FACTS. (Correction: You didn't call them facts, but I'm assuming since you put them on a forum, and your a man of facts, instead of highly opinionated rhetoric, that you'll direct me to where I can read this communication?)
Old 02-22-2012 | 05:13 PM
  #90047  
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Originally Posted by Gearjerk
Maybe D-ALPA isn't calling for a vote because they're too busy.....wait for it....wait for it....TOO FRICKEN BUSY PREPARING FOR YOUR SECTION 6 NEGOTIATIONS CARL!!
So we can expect to see a vote after Section 6 is complete? Sounds good to me.
Old 02-22-2012 | 05:14 PM
  #90048  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Well said, Scambo.

One other point to add. IF management likes the idea of disunity in the pilot group (because it helps their side in the negotiation process), and if DPA causes disunity in the pilot group (which hurts our side), then wouldn't management want DPA to succeed? And if management wants DPA to succeed, why have they been so supportive of DALPA and unsupportive (even obstructive) of DPA?
Why do you think that Management wants D-ALPA to succeed vs. DPA? DAL88 you're smarter than that question.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CONSTRUCTIVE ENGAGEMENT "RAPPORT" with D-ALPA. You know, the same constructive engagement, outside of Section 6 negotiations mind you, that gave YOU & CARL & EVERYONE ELSE ON THE SENIORITY LIST, the Scheduling Optimization Team (SOT), the change in reserve rules, the changes in 23K.

Think these could have or would have been done in the same time period with the DPA?

Answer carefully, as the DPA can't even get enough votes yet to bring it to the pilot group for ratification.

GJ

P.S. Like your BS flag, but just because someone disagrees with your opinion, doesn't always mean it's BS.
Old 02-22-2012 | 05:15 PM
  #90049  
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Originally Posted by georgetg
Oh and we're on track for a profitable Q1 2012 vs a 400M loss in Q1 2011. That means that full year figures already are well ahead of 2011 and that's with tepid improvements in our economy as well as an easing in Europe. But somehow there will be those that will explain why we ought to be "happy to have a job" while we all move downhill and take one for the team. For even captain displaced that's a roughly 40% cut in pay in LAX...

But I'm glad we are reducing transatlantic capacity by 7-8% while AFKLM is doing 6.5%, it's not like we were below a target balance or anything.
Maybe we can celebrate a few more codeshare announcements for LAX along with developing the Virgin JV with improved [AS] connectivity...

Cheers
George
Try to hold back your enthusiasm.... One of the reasons the DC9s are staying is because they are taking an extra 20 RJs out of the system this year, so mainline will get back some of the lost flying, which is good. A lot of the "fat" we have now is on the FO side thanks to the cut backs in Europe, not as many 3rd crew members needed. I don't think Capts will be as affected. But, there will be a lot of MD90 Capt slots in the next bid, and DC9 Capts will stay in place for an extra year.
Old 02-22-2012 | 05:15 PM
  #90050  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
With such a well thought out and fact based introduction, I'm sure the rest of this post will just be scintillating.
Originally Posted by Gearjerk
Thank you Carl, I'll take that as a compliment from you!
Interesting that you're still proud of the post that prompted me to say this to you. For review, here it is again:

Originally Posted by Gearjerk
T,

No need to lose any sleep over the "donut-hole, crack-pipe smoking DPA supporters".
That kind of stuff won't help you at all here.

Carl
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