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Originally Posted by FlyZ
(Post 1149546)
Honest question - what harm would be done by giving the membership the exact term sheet presented to management AFTER management has seen it? To whom are we "showing our hand" at that point?
- Management? They'll have ALREADY SEEN IT! - The Delta pilots? Those are OUR cards. I want to know where we stand! - The public? I doubt they care very much, and I don't see how this information leaking out would hurt our negotiations. - Wall Street? That's the only place I could see it having an effect. Perhaps if shareholders see a huge gap, they would expect our labor costs to increase significantly. However, it isn't the job of our union to protect shareholder interests. It's our interests they ought to (and hopefully do) have in mind. So, I don't want to see a watered down, generalized statement of what we are asking for. I want to know the details, both to give my reps guidance and evaluate ALPA's opening stance. How would that be harmful? Carl |
Happy Saturday!
TEN My Bad. |
You guys really know how to push the line on these pictures. I can see through that girl's outfit. She might as well be naked. I like it though.
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[QUOTE=TenYearsGone;1149592]Happy Saturday!
TEN ** My bad. I couldnt see thru, but if you could see, then I posted in poor taste. Sorry. |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1149416)
You know tsquare, I've come to expect this type of ignorance from you. And as such, it doesn't bother me when you post stuff like this. But there are 5,000 other fNWA pilots that also walked out rather than keep the B scale as management demanded. I know you think it doesn't matter to insult us as we're not "real" Delta pilots anyway, but you probably should re-think this particular line of insulting.
Carl Ya see that's where ya are wrong buddy boy. I respect the vast majority of fNWA guys that I have been associated with.. have talked to and all that. Very few of them, present company excepted of course, come across with the arrogant condescending know it all attitude that you do. You are back on the list with your boy bacon bits... flame away... I couldn't care less... |
Originally Posted by FlyZ
(Post 1149546)
Honest question - what harm would be done by giving the membership the exact term sheet presented to management AFTER management has seen it? To whom are we "showing our hand" at that point?
- Management? They'll have ALREADY SEEN IT! - The Delta pilots? Those are OUR cards. I want to know where we stand! - The public? I doubt they care very much, and I don't see how this information leaking out would hurt our negotiations. - Wall Street? That's the only place I could see it having an effect. Perhaps if shareholders see a huge gap, they would expect our labor costs to increase significantly. However, it isn't the job of our union to protect shareholder interests. It's our interests they ought to (and hopefully do) have in mind. So, I don't want to see a watered down, generalized statement of what we are asking for. I want to know the details, both to give my reps guidance and evaluate ALPA's opening stance. How would that be harmful? I'm not sure what you expect to see. Is it the pay rate that is going to tell you whether this is a good opener or a bad opener? Would it really make you guys happy if the union published a piece of paper that says we want a 84.2% raise in our Section 3 pay rates? What exactly would that prove? Does that show that DALPA is strong but if they publish a piece of paper asking for an 68.5% raise then that means they are weak? Numbers like that are nearly meaningless at this point. You really want them to put a ridiculous throw away figure in the "opener" so you guys will cheer and then abandon it in the first 5 minutes of talks? It sounds like that is what you are asking the union to do. I'm no expert but I think you guys may be laboring under a misconception of how these negotiations work. There are 28 sections in our contract and there is a cost associated with most all of them. The pay rate tables are only one piece of the puzzle. By its very nature the "opener" is going to be a general guideline of which areas we think need to be emphasized but I'd be very surprised if it lists exact numbers for every section. Besides pay there are some very importabt things we need to get that are also just as expensive. Work rules, retirement, medical, disability, sick leave, vacation, etc. etc. etc. There is going to be a long process before we have any real numbers. It would be easy to "open" for massive improvements across the board but does that really help in actually achieving those improvements? I think not. |
Originally Posted by gloopy
(Post 1149350)
200 dollar whats?
It doesn't matter. This had to be done: http://undercoverfeminist.com/wp-con...s/man_card.jpg |
Wow, time flies in the middle of the night! Where dd that hour go?
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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1149615)
Ya see that's where ya are wrong buddy boy. I respect the vast majority of fNWA guys that I have been associated with. have talked to and all that.
Carl |
The opener has no real validity to anything other then what we end up with as a result. It does however have a impact on the result so has to be carefully thought out. A opener can cause a lower end result if its to low to begin with however it can also have the same final result if the opener is to high. The Delta 777 negotiations are a classic example of the latter. The opener is a balancing act taking in the needs of the pilots verses the reality of the NMB and RLA.
There has been a lot posted the last few weeks about a quick contract. I would love to see that but I don't think its going to happen. I noted a lot of optimism in the lounge last week based on various rumors. I have no doubt the company wants a quick contract or a extension. Most pilots however are I suspect going to be shocked by how little the company is going to be willing to give to achieve that. The company will weigh the value of a quick contract verses its actual cost. I don't think we can come together on a number that will satisfy the company and be even close to acceptable to the pilot group. Get your finances in order and be ready for a 5 year plus battle. |
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