There's 2 very big differences in our case johnso:

1. We are more profitable than the industry's pay leader right now. It's not like we're asking for this from one of these other companies you mention who are in dire financial straits. Our company is not in dire straits PRIMARILY because of the cooperation and give-backs by pilots.

2. All of the above examples you mention had direct negotiations going on for years before any NMB involvement. That can't happen with us because our contract stipulates NMB involvement 90 days after our contract's amendable date. This precludes management from dragging their feet.

Do you not think these represent two very big differences between us and any other recent Section 6?

Carl

 

It is obviously your decision to commute to your new base so quit your complaining. You should have everything in place on day one so that you can finish short call the last day of the month in your old base and begin short call on the first day in your new base.

 

You as any pilot that is part of D-ALPA can go in front of the MEC at the MEC meeting. Call your C16 rep and find out how.

Second, I said there is something we have that they want, not that we were willing to give it away. The MEC has clearly stated that this is going to be a positive contract in every section of the agreement. Does that mean that we might have to give on something of significance to see a huge gain? Maybe, but until you and I see an agreement; the one we will have to vote on, all we know is that we are negotiating early.

 

Carl,

You make good points. I'll admit that I'm not familiar with the specifics of the companies I mentioned WRT to your points. Honestly, I wasn't trying to prove you wrong(or sailingfun right). I was just bringing up some examples of Sec 6 negotiations that lasted many years.

 

Well, I thought you knew how this worked, but I was wrong. My mistake. Either you don't understand how a section six works, or you are pushing an agenda. But you're always pushing an agenda.

Johnso had it right, Carl. You're wrong. You used to be right most of the time, but you are so Don Quixote right now that everything is a windmill.

 

Then by all means tell me exactly where I'm wrong. If you're done hurling dopey insults that is.

Carl

 

Aww geeze, are we really arguing about what the NMB will or won't do? It really doesn't matter. The NMB *will* park DALPA, you *are* too big to strike, and the President *will* send you back to work. But it's wrong to say you have no leverage because you can't strike (outside of selling scope ). You have enormous leverage: you guys are at the controls. It's entirely within your power whether the operation runs smoothly or goes to crap. You just can't legally talk about it as DAL pilots thanks to the (unconstitutional, IMHO) UAL ruling. Fortunately, I'm not a DAL pilot, so I will. ALPA, negotiate in good faith and report regularly in the exact progress of negotiations and management's level of "constructive engagement." Pilots, adjust your enthusiasm level appropriately. The rest will take care of itself, no conspiracy needed.

 

The 3-day GS's are starting to flow on ATLMD88B and the TSRA field day hasn't started yet.

 

Quick question on hotels near JFK. Anyone got tips on one nearby that offers a good crew rate? Thanks for any info

 

Yeah Carl, I'm not done. This whole conversation started with Sailing saying that if it goes to the NMB expect a long process. Maybe 5 years. You called him a liar, several times.

Then, very subtly you changed the conversation and claimed he said that the NMB portion of negotiations would take 5 years. And again you called him a liar.

You are so blinded by rage (about the sli is my guess) and entitlement issues that you are either unable to correctly read and comprehend the English language or you are pushing an agenda. The agenda in the long run is to get rid of ALPA, in the short term to set up a belief in everyone's mind that if we don't get everything we want within 6 months of starting negotiations that DALPA has failed and we should change agents.

Now you can say what the NMB is going to do. That's fine, and the arguments you make are good. But it would be idiotic to think that the company isn't going to have arguments to counter them. So, no one knows what the NMB will say or do, and to claim you do know is foolish.

Now, some recent history that Johnso was referring to. I'll post the source documents so everyone can read for themselves,

APA Negotiations Updates 2010
crewroom.alpa.org/pclmec > Negotiations
http://unbiasedfacts.org/WallStreetJournalOnContinentalPilotPay.pdf[/url]
AirTran Pilots Ratify New Contract | AVIATION WEEK

So, the point? Quit giving people the impression that we'll walk in, slam our demands on a desk, give them the finger and walk out with a new contract that has everything we want. That's not going to happen, and you know it's not going to happen. We have a chance to get everything right this time, and whether it takes 6 months or 5 years, let's get it right. But we have to be prepared for that, and be patient to get it right. And to strike if necessary.