JungleBus

Aww geeze, are we really arguing about what the NMB will or won't do? It really doesn't matter. The NMB *will* park DALPA, you *are* too big to strike, and the President *will* send you back to work. But it's wrong to say you have no leverage because you can't strike (outside of selling scope ). You have enormous leverage: you guys are at the controls. It's entirely within your power whether the operation runs smoothly or goes to crap. You just can't legally talk about it as DAL pilots thanks to the (unconstitutional, IMHO) UAL ruling. Fortunately, I'm not a DAL pilot, so I will. ALPA, negotiate in good faith and report regularly in the exact progress of negotiations and management's level of "constructive engagement." Pilots, adjust your enthusiasm level appropriately. The rest will take care of itself, no conspiracy needed.

forgot to bid

The 3-day GS's are starting to flow on ATLMD88B and the TSRA field day hasn't started yet.

jiminmem

Quick question on hotels near JFK. Anyone got tips on one nearby that offers a good crew rate? Thanks for any info

Wingnutdal

Yeah Carl, I'm not done. This whole conversation started with Sailing saying that if it goes to the NMB expect a long process. Maybe 5 years. You called him a liar, several times.

Then, very subtly you changed the conversation and claimed he said that the NMB portion of negotiations would take 5 years. And again you called him a liar.

You are so blinded by rage (about the sli is my guess) and entitlement issues that you are either unable to correctly read and comprehend the English language or you are pushing an agenda. The agenda in the long run is to get rid of ALPA, in the short term to set up a belief in everyone's mind that if we don't get everything we want within 6 months of starting negotiations that DALPA has failed and we should change agents.

Now you can say what the NMB is going to do. That's fine, and the arguments you make are good. But it would be idiotic to think that the company isn't going to have arguments to counter them. So, no one knows what the NMB will say or do, and to claim you do know is foolish.

Now, some recent history that Johnso was referring to. I'll post the source documents so everyone can read for themselves,

APA Negotiations Updates 2010
crewroom.alpa.org/pclmec > Negotiations
http://unbiasedfacts.org/WallStreetJournalOnContinentalPilotPay.pdf[/url]
AirTran Pilots Ratify New Contract | AVIATION WEEK

So, the point? Quit giving people the impression that we'll walk in, slam our demands on a desk, give them the finger and walk out with a new contract that has everything we want. That's not going to happen, and you know it's not going to happen. We have a chance to get everything right this time, and whether it takes 6 months or 5 years, let's get it right. But we have to be prepared for that, and be patient to get it right. And to strike if necessary.

Carl Spackler

Actually, it's probably one of the most important matters. If management can (through its lackies) convince you that the NMB has removed your right to strike and that you cannot win against them, then management can get you to surrender before the fight. Surrendering before the fight is the most efficient way to win. We just can't be stupid enough to fall for it...or we'll deserve to have lost.

That is simply your opinion based on nothing. You don't know any of this.

Carl

Wingnutdal

You've got to be kidding me. This is a general timeline. It's not OUR timeline. Nowhere does it say that this applies to us! The NMB could tell us to pound sand and come back in 3 years!

Are you sure you've done this before.

Carl Spackler

Sailingfun did lie. No question. He claimed all these statements happened duriing the NMB's presentation to DALPA. When I called him out on the lies, he backed off and said that the NMB said so...in a "round about manner."

The NMB gave a historic perspective of airline contract negotiations and the NMB's historic role in them when they've been asked to join.

It was and is sailingfun that's been stating the NMB will park us indefinitely depending upon various and changing scenarios. What do you think "parking" means?

Carl

Carl Spackler

Calling people out when they blatantly lie is not rage. Regarding the sli, I've got plenty of posts you could read that state the arbitrator's decision on the SLI was one of the most articulate and reasoned judgments I've read in quite a while. But in order know any of this, you'd have to have been paying attention. Clearly you haven't. You prefer hurling the dopey insults.

Ah...I see. Sounds like another junior guy who thinks any of their current problems are due to senior guys selling them out because the senior guys are entitled. Talk about pushing an agenda!

Show even one post where I've ever said this or even inferred this.

This is exactly what I've been saying to those like sailingfun who claim to know what the NMB will do. Specifically, parking us indefinitely if we ........

Carl

Carl Spackler

One simple question: Did any of these folks have in their contract (as we do) that mediation MUST be agreed to ~90 days after the contract's amendable date?

Carl

TheManager

I was going to raise the flag on this as well but of course Carl was right on it. You can go over the presentation slide by slide on the dalpa website and no where in it did it even get close to stating anything sailing claimed.

Further conversation with a representative present at the presentation did not support sailings claim that it was said in " a round about mannner."

Again folks. Does it make sense for an official of the NMB to make such bold statements in anything other than a private one on one converstation that could potentially cause serious blow back for them??

This is a not so subtle attempt to manipulate the message. Plain and simple.